ewest Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I've never actually seen a video of a long winded screamer, I would say that's not so feeble an attempt, that things went way up there. What kind of tooling did you use? The same tooling you use for your other whistle rockets? Because I've seen on Wolter's site where he and Steve LaDuke have come up with specialized tooling just for the long winded screamers. It's on my wish list........ Both excellent rockets, keep 'em comin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Thanks ewest, I used the same tooling that I have used on all my rockets, the 3 lb. strobe tooling, which is as close as you can get to long winded screamer tooling in the 3 lb range. The only rockets I have made with tooling other than the 3 lb. strobe were the chlorate rockets. I really need to upgrade my inventory of rocket tooling so I can start making different sizes and types. Basically the long winded screamer has a really long core and you use salicylate for the first 40% or so of your core, and top it off with benzoate. I have been kicking around the idea of a half and half rocket, the first half of the core salicylate, and then a 1/2" increment of clay and then top it off with BP. Not sure that it will look different than my hummer fueled rocket but hey it's worth trying just to shoot. Wolter doesn't currently sell long winded screamer tooling larger than the 2 lb. but I think I heard somewhere he is developing larger LWS tooling. Between Wolter and Steve Laduke, the pyro rocket hobbyist is going to have fun stuff to make for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Hey just for some info, I happen to have one of Steve's videos on Mini Whistle Rockets where he provided a pamphlet with different whistle formulas on there. It happens to mention that for a Long Winded Screamer the formula he uses is: Potassium Perchlorate 64Sodium Benzoate 32Red Iron Oxide 1Vaseline 1 to 4 And for some more general knowledge for everyone. Benzoate is a slower less powerful fuel than Salicylate. Also the lower the content of Pot. Perch. (higer content of Benzoate or Salicylate) the slower the mix is. So a mix of 64 parts Perch. and 32 parts Benzoate is pretty slow. Also, Steve says that the higher the parts of vaseline, the slower the burn also and the raspier it will sound. Personally I like to use 2 parts vaseline in my rockets, but I've never made a long winded screamer so I'm not sure how different it sounds from a regular whistle. I also like Benzoate over Salicylate because I just think it sounds better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h&k machineguns Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 I got my 1 pound long winded tooling from Steve LaDuke yesterday and have done about 6 rockets so far. All have worked,except the very first one that the stick broke on take off and it corked up in the air about 100 feet.I don't own any Sodium Benz. I use straight Solicalate up the whole spindle. I have got my loads up so far with great results.2 tsp of 76/24/1 and 3 parts vasoline. I do this for 5 increments at 8000 psi. I then do 2 more incriments 2 tsp each,that finish off the spindle with 65/31/1 and 3 parts vasoline. I use another inc of 2 tsp of the 65 for solid ontop of the spindle. The last inc is 1 tsp of 65 for the rest.Things fly like bullets,and that's with a 55 gram payload. I wish I could figure out how to make them fly straight up with no payload. I'd love to see how high a raw motor and stick could go. Seems they need a payload for them to fly straight. I may even build a 3' long rocket that's only 1" wide with fins on it,just to see how high it could go. I can't find any 1/16" sidewall 1" ID though.I rwish I could post vids,but if you want to see a kick ass rocket just look at Dan Themes stuff.The long winded whistles are just as easy as any short whistle I've ever done.Here is a pic of the 2 sets of tooling Steve made for me. The first is a 4 oz long winded whistle kit and the other is the 1 pounder that I just got yesterday.I use plastic fusion epoxy from Home Depot on my hose clamps the sleaves to make it easier and faster. http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6079/toolinghb5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Yeah the long winded screamer tooling is very long. With a core that long you have to use either weaker mixes or stronger loading pressures or you will have CATO's. All of my whistle mixes are 70/30/1.5/3. I think I might try making a long winded screamer on my next pass, and it's been awhile since I made a multi-stage rocket. I think it's high time I made another noisy high flyer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedin label Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Chlorate/Salicylate core to regular Salicylate delay during the daytime This was Beutiful Nice report i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Well ewest, I tried to make a legitimate long winded screamer for you tonight. I was very disappointed in the results, and have yet to figure out what went wrong. This is by far the loudest thing I have made yet, sadly. 3 lb. long winded screamer to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I've heard Steve talk about this before. The trick is 2 different comps. A Salicyliate first to get it up in the air, and then benzoate after that for the long whistling. I have a diagram sitting around for the 2lb version (7/8" ID). I'm not sure where I got it, or if I am supposed to have it actually. Salicyliate: 76/23/1/3Benzoate: 64/32/1/5 Salicyliate for the first 1-2". Benzoate to top of spindle and 1 3/4" to 2" of benzoate above it. Case is 7 1/2" long. He says experiment Add increments of salicyliate until it catos, then reduce by one. It can depend on a lot of things like particle size, grade of perc, pressure, strength of casing, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Well ewest, I tried to make a legitimate long winded screamer for you tonight. I was very disappointed in the results, and have yet to figure out what went wrong. This is by far the loudest thing I have made yet, sadly. ........ .......... I think I just pissed my pants.......Holy CRAP that was loud! Thanks a lot for trying though, I'll bet they're awesome when they do work. And yes, Mumbles you may be correct on that one about the two different mixes. The video I have isn't actually on Long Winded Screamers just regular whistle rockets. And every rocket Steve makes I think he uses the same process, a couple increments of Salicylate then he changes to a different type. It kind of gives the whistle when it takes off a smoother sound, but I just like when they spit at you at takeoff, so I just use Benzoate all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 The long winded screamer is in fact two mixes. The first few increments are Salicylate and the rest is Benzoate. That is exactly what I put in my bomb on a stick in that video. I just pressed in a crapload of delay which should have nothing whatsoever to do with the CATO.Steve actually sent me a message about the LWS in a post of mine on passfire. I already knew how to make LWS's I just don't know what went wrong with this one. Aside from my first chlorate rocket this is the only other CATO I have had. I pressed it hard enough (just a little over 20,000PSI) there was no split in the casing and the grain looked good but for one tiny little flake that chipped out of it when I extracted my tooling from the core. This still has me a little perturbed. I would like to make another tomorrow, but I'm burning through my Sally at an alarming rate. That rocket probably had about 250 grams of fuel, normally not a big deal but I know I won't be able to get more by new years. Crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I guess my batch of salicylate is crap. 2nd CATO in a row. A little to much delay in this 3lb. BP rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Well, you're getting better though, your second LWS attempt flew for like 1/4 second where the first just blew immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshot Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 OK I finally got a digital camera so I can post some videos of my rockets. This one is a small skyrocket based on my 4" long 3/8" ID motor rammed with 71 24 5 propellant mix. The stars are cut, using the chrysanthemum 8 mix. Pre launch photohttp://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/di...07/S3011388.jpg http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/di...=Picture054.flv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Nice!! I'm guessing there was a nozzle. PSMerry Christmas!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty green flame Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 That's actually a very good rocket. I love smaller rocket mainly because they are faster and quicker to build. How much did the header weigh, it got to a very good height so i'm guessing not very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyscoolsn Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Merry Christmas, I had a disaster last night, I had 3 rockets for my extended family to celebrate christmas. The first was a cato, second blew the nozzle, and third didnt light..... It was a very embarassing night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshot Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Yes cplmac it is a core burner with a kitty litter nozzle 3mm diameter. I ram them on tooling I made on a lathe. The rockets launch fast with a loud whoosh and burn for a few more seconds because I ram about 3/4" of comp above the end of the spindle which gives them good height. To answer Green Flames question the headers weigh 35 to 40 grams. When I first got these rockets to work consistently I was loading them with 23 to 25 grams but that left some loose space in the header so I just figured I might as well fill the whole thing with stars and burst and the motor still lifted it easily.I'm working on a way to build them with a central burst charge to get a symmetrical break. Right now I just mix the stars and burst together and it breaks in a fan pattern. Anyway I will post more videos when I can and everybody have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Here you go ewest, I made a long winded screamer today for you. No benzoate this time. It was a bad batch of benze blowing up my screamers. My first 3" cylinder salute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50caliber Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 That was one beautiful rocket, it went way up there. But I have to say the 3inch salute was my favorite, how much flash was in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thank you sir, I just saw it in your other post. I've gotta start making me some of those, those are awesome. That salute was a cylinder? I've made some 3" plastic sphereical salutes before, they're always fun........until they start coming back down and you start yelling at people "SHIT, run!" But now I've got my timing down much better. I don't think I had 125gr in it though, but close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty green flame Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Ok these two rockets i fired yesterday, they were both 10mm (around 2 oz. type) with a small header of better pearl stars. http://www.apcforum.net/files/Raketa1.wmvhttp://www.apcforum.net/files/Raketa2.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshot Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Very nice rockets! I really like the streamer effect on the pearl stars. The breaks were very loud. Did you use flash? I'm just starting to tinker with colored stars and that would be one that I would seriously consider making. It would be great if you could post the recipe on the composition forum. Have a happy New Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty green flame Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Very nice rockets! I really like the streamer effect on the pearl stars. The breaks were very loud. Did you use flash? Yes i used flash break, a little over 1g for the whole shell (wheighed around 25grams). I'm just starting to tinker with colored stars and that would be one that I would seriously consider making. It would be great if you could post the recipe on the composition forum. Have a happy New Year. What, do you mean for the better pearl star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I don't know which I liked better, the beautiful streamer pearls or the backdrop! Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshot Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Yes for the better pearl star. I need to know the ingredients and procedure to make them. Thats a great effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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