Long Hangtime Bright Fine Silver Star Comp?

[pyroguy1960]

So I've been experimenting trying to reproduce this effect and haven't had luck....the comps I've tried so far are with 80 mesh spherical TI and 40/-100 sponge TI. Neither really produced the desired effect as the sparks were not fine enough and the stars burn out really fast.

 

The effect I’m seeking is something like these videos below…

 

 

The last shell in this one, the silver willow effect, not sure what you call it, this one seems to have a little blue tinge to it...

 

 

My guess is I need really fine TI, which I can’t seem to source anywhere…but I’m not sure what makes it hang longer, perhaps pressing the stars more densely?

 

So the questions I'm looking to have answered I guess are:

 

What's the comp?

Where to get the materials if something out of the ordinary is needed.

Any special manufacturing process.

 

 

[Xtreme Pyro]

Not sure if this is exactly what your looking for. But check out skylighters rubber star article, there a composition called "Silver-White" it looks similar to the video you posted, you can see it here.

 

Here's a picture of what they look like (the one on the left)

 

http://www.skylighter.com/images/how_to/Rubber-Star-Rainbow/6-inch-shells-with-parlon-stars.jpg

 

Hope this helps you out some

 

EDIT: Mods, if I wasn't supposed to post the link here please remove.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Xtreme Pyro

[Ralph]

really fine Ti wont get you a long hang time lots and lots of ti in a relatively slow burning star can do this though as can an over wet and or over milled glitter. Whats interesting is that you put links to large shells which would probably be using huge commets try using some larger stars in your shells and you may be happy with your results

[pyroguy1960]

That's one of the formulas I've tried, was actually one of the first I tried. Problem is it's relatively short lived and since he didn't specify the mesh of the metals, I went with what I had (stated above) and the sparks were fairly course.

 

I'm trying to find something that will hang for a little while (burn out after stars start to droop), be very bright and have as fine as possible sparks.

 

It may just be a matter of finding very fine TI & pressing twice as much comp with twice as much pressure to achive the hang. But I've kinda wasted alot of time chasing this on my own already so I figured somebody might already have the comp and know where to get very fine TI.

 

 

[pyroguy1960]

really fine Ti wont get you a long hang time lots and lots of ti in a relatively slow burning star can do this though as can an over wet and or over milled glitter. Whats interesting is that you put links to large shells which would probably be using huge commets try using some larger stars in your shells and you may be happy with your results

 

 

Yea I saw that, definately huge stars in those shells, but what I really noticed about those was how fine the sparks were, almost looks like a stream of light vs a trail of sparks....coolness.

[pyroguy1960]

I did notice that the sponge TI did produce slightly finer sparks then the spherical 80 mesh TI, just not quite fine enough....I could probably solve the longevity issue by simply making larger, more dense stars....but still a mystery to me how to get super fine sparks....

[Ralph]

try

 

28 - KNO₃

6 - Sulfur

6 - Charcoal

4 - Aluminum (spherical, 200-600mesh)

4 Dextrin

mill for 2-3 hours cut pump or roll them large this should give you the fine white your after

[Mumbles]

What you may be after is a type of flitter star. Honestly, it looks more like aluminum to me. It tends to give a finer tail. A mix of metal sizes/shapes can be made to look like it all runs together. The trick with these is to add red gum or shellac, it really extends the tail by being used up first. Thus it forces the aluminum to use atmospheric oxygen to burn, like some willow stars.

 

I don't have an exact formula in mind, but perhaps something like the following:

 

Perc - 50

Bright Flake - 25

Fine flitters - 10

Coarse flake - 5

Red Gum - 8

Dextrin - 5

 

You'd probably want to wet that with wheat paste. If you can't find a fine flitter, you might be able to sub in atomized Al.

[50AE]

A very beautiful golden/silver formula and cheap is similar to the one Mumbles mentioned. It's from Hardt:

 

Hardt Silver Star #2

 

Potassium chlorate 50

Potassium nitrate 8

Aluminium (bright) 21

Aluminium (flitter) 8

Red gum 5

Dextrin 8

 

I vary the comp a bit, I use a mixed Al for flitter - from 15 mesh flitters to 100 mesh coarse powder. It has a very beautiful tail.

 

Here's a frame: (my camera picks more on the yellow side)

 

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2278/silverkclo3.png

Edited October 11, 2010 by 50AE

[dagabu]

How about adding 10% barium sulfate to the mix? Would it turn the comp green?

 

I added it to long burn charcoal stars and it worked well to delay the comp.

[pyroguy1960]

In looking around at my usual suppliers for flitter AL, the only one that has it is skylighter and it's a very course -20 mesh. Anyone have a source for finer flitter?

[Updup]

try

 

28 - KNO₃

6 - Sulfur

6 - Charcoal

4 - Aluminum (spherical, 200-600mesh)

4 Dextrin

mill for 2-3 hours cut pump or roll them large this should give you the fine white your after

 

Have you tryed this? Sounds like somthing I've been after for awhile... though with that much KNO₃ what prime would you use?

[Mumbles]

The comp ralph posted is his glitter. There is a thread in the comp section, probably with videos. It's pretty nice looking IIRC.

 

I know I've seen it elsewhere, but the -20 mesh is always what I've used. If you screen it, it makes a nice firefly too. What passes that might suit you a bit better.

[Updup]

The comp ralph posted is his glitter. There is a thread in the comp section, probably with videos. It's pretty nice looking IIRC.

 

I know I've seen it elsewhere, but the -20 mesh is always what I've used. If you screen it, it makes a nice firefly too. What passes that might suit you a bit better.

 

Aww, thats a shame, though I still might try it.

 

Been looking for an AL/Nitrate based silver tail star comp.

[Ralph]

After it is milled for 2-3 hours it is not glitter like at all but just leaves a solid white tail ( due to the lack of any delay agents or any retardants) prime with meal is more than sufficient

 

EDIT : heres a pic http://pyrobin.com/files/rg%20milled.jpg the White stars are the milled RG1

Edited October 12, 2010 by Ralph

[Updup]

After it is milled for 2-3 hours it is not glitter like at all but just leaves a solid white tail ( due to the lack of any delay agents or any retardants) prime with meal is more than sufficient

 

EDIT : heres a pic http://pyrobin.com/files/rg%20milled.jpg the White stars are the milled RG1

 

 

Great, I'm making that tomarrow. I started thinking about the mill thing, and figured it wouldn't glitter after being milled.

 

didn't notic the lack of delay agent =P silly me!

[Ralph]

I forgot to say earlier mill with out the aluminium in there (its pretty obvious I know but who knows who will read this)

[Updup]

I forgot to say earlier mill with out the aluminium in there (its pretty obvious I know but who knows who will read this)

 

Don't worry, I wouldn't mill AL for anything.

[Mumbles]

I found the other source I was thinking of for the very coarse Al flitter. It's listed as +20, but I think it should really be -20. It's the Eckart product number of the stuff I used, so I know it's good stuff.

 

http://www.hobbychemicalsupply.com/servlet/the-21/flitter-glitter-aluminum-flake/Detail

[pyroguy1960]

Yup that's the stuff skylighter has -20 Eckart 41813G.....I just ordered 4 lbs of it yesterday...

 

CH0148 Aluminum, flake, flitters, co 4 $23.61 $94.44

Edited October 14, 2010 by jms04081974

[pyroguy1960]

jeez, hobby chem is like half the price though....skylighter's expensive eh?

[dagabu]

Yup that's the stuff skylighter has -20 Eckart 41813G.....I just ordered 4 lbs of it yesterday...

 

CH0148 Aluminum, flake, flitters, co 4 $23.61 $94.44

 

Dude, that is so sad, we are waiting on a bulk order for -18 and +30 flitters/firefly, US Bronze no. 813 flitters and paid under $9.00 a pound. Think about joining Passfire too, the deals are there.

[pyroguy1960]

I know, I need to shop around some more, I like the way skylighter packages things, but I don't like it enough to be paying twice as much.

[Algenco]

Dude, that is so sad, we are waiting on a bulk order for -18 and +30 flitters/firefly, US Bronze no. 813 flitters and paid under $9.00 a pound. Think about joining Passfire too, the deals are there.

 

 

10 lbs

 

looking forward to November

Edited October 14, 2010 by Algenco

[dagabu]

10 lbs

 

looking forward to November

 

I split an order.... so sad.