Willow Alternatives [Beware 56K]

[FrankRizzo]

I also recommend the Alder. Tentacles and I made lift powder with it last year, and it performed almost identically to the Paulownia charcoal that I paid much more for.

[flying fish]

I just emailed custom charcoal and asked if they would change my order. Well, either way I won't complain. 8 lbs of willow will work for my needs...so will 20 lbs of Alder.

[Bananaphone69]

They probably will. I ordered about a month ago, and it hasn't even shipped. I even emailed the guy twice, but he's a fire fighter, and says he's been busy, so I let him be.

[flying fish]

Huh... That sounds a bit troubling.

 

I wasn't planning on waiting more than a month for this stuff... He will ship it eventually, right?!?!

[scarbelly]

Judging by the supplier review, it seems he has had no issues with not sending packages, just being very delayed in doing so. Apparently the charcoal was good enough for it to not be thought of as a big deal by most who bought from him.

That was really oddly worded...

I also ordered the alder last thursday, and he hasn't emailed me yet for a confirmation or anything. Luckily I'm in no rush.

[andyboy]

Well, maybe he has to wait for a forrest-fire to collect the charcoal?

[flying fish]

^^^Lol Andyboy.

 

I guess I'm OK with waiting for it...just means I have to find something else in the meantime. The main reason why I bought it was that I haven't had time to start a charcoal makin' operation (at least beyond throwing a paint can on a camp stove...VERY low yield). Heck, I haven't gotten to my workshop in weeks. Oh well, 20 lbs of alder in a month or so is better than not at all...

[AdmiralDonSnider]

The best choice for an amateur is homemade charcoal coming from a suitable kind of wood that is growing naturally in the area where he lives. I guess that everyone (in case he does not come from the Gobi desert or Antarctica) has such a species of wood around.

 

Against this background I (from Austria) successfully used:

Alder buckthorn (Rhamnus frangula): without a doubt one of the best possible choices for BP, my standard for this purpose

Black alder (Alnus glutinosa) and

White willow (Salix alba)

 

BUT: I really don´t get why people keep voting for Balsa. I consider this one of the worst choices a pyro can make.

 

WHY NOT TO USE BALSA?

Using Balsa:

 

- is hilariously expensive

- relies on a commercial source for the raw material

- contributes to the pollution of the environment and the destruction of the rain forest

- gives very voluminous charcoal, a property very undesirable when it comes to ball milling (jars are volume loaded)

- does not give consistent powders

- does not tremendously - if at all - increase burning speed compared to other top charcoals e.g. Alder buckthorn

 

Pyros voting for the use of balsa are revealing their own unconsciousness in terms of both charcoal and BP manufacture.

Edited August 10, 2009 by AdmiralDonSnider

[scarbelly]

Flying fish: David from customcharcoal's wife sent me an email to let me know about a large fire up where they live. Seeing as he's a volunteer firefighter, he's been working hard on this. The firefighters seem to be making some good progress on this fire. It's been going since the 3rd of august i believe....

[Mumbles]

He took a while to get my charcoal to me, because there was a burn ban in effect for a while. No fire, no cooking charcoal.

 

WHY NOT TO USE BALSA?

Using Balsa:

 

- is hilariously expensive

- relies on a commercial source for the raw material

- contributes to the pollution of the environment and the destruction of the rain forest

- gives very voluminous charcoal, a property very undesirable when it comes to ball milling (jars are volume loaded)

- does not give consistent powders

- does not tremendously - if at all - increase burning speed compared to other top charcoals e.g. Alder buckthorn

 

1, 4, 5, and 6 are not based in reality for everyone.

 

There are many sources that will sell off sawdust and scrap for practically nothing. Even from the commercial source of submicron saw dust, it still is at most a few dollars a pound.

 

It is very light, but no one I know loads their BP by volume. They load it by weight. Yes, there is the optimal 1/4 material charge, but it doesn't matter, and it packs down pretty well by the end.

 

It has always been pretty consistent for everyone I know who has made it. It's not like newspaper charcoal.

 

Many have noted it to be significantly more violent in it's burning. I think it has a lot to do with the density. A lot has to do with already being a submicron powder, far finer than any ball mill can take it. If you're cooking balsa logs, this will be different.

 

Just because the above list is true for you, does not mean it applies to everyone.

[flying fish]

Flying fish: David from customcharcoal's wife sent me an email to let me know about a large fire up where they live. Seeing as he's a volunteer firefighter, he's been working hard on this. The firefighters seem to be making some good progress on this fire. It's been going since the 3rd of august i believe....

 

 

Thanks for the update. I also got an email from him the week before last, saying that he was fighting wildfire, and might be able to ship it out the following week (last week). Obviously that didn't happen, but that's fine...I can do without the alder charcoal for a little while. I bought some mesquite charcoal from the grocery store just for curiosity's sake (and laking time to make my own charcoal) ...then LATER I read the reviews on that particular charcoal...apparently it is pretty bad (worse than the "mixed hardwoods", oh god). I will find out for myself though...I have a 200g batch in the mill. I'm hoping it will be lift-worthy, when riced with Red gum. If not, it'll find other uses of course.

Edited August 16, 2009 by flying fish

[scarbelly]

I've used mesquite charcoal before, of course when i used it for anything powerful I was even more of a beginner than I am now... but it didn't seem to be all that great. I'm sure it'll work out for you if you're only needing it for a week or two. It seems however to be EXCELLENT for sparks, and thats my main use for it now.

 

And as far as that fire goes, as of earlier today i believe, the internet news said it was around 80% contained, so it sounds promising.

[flying fish]

That's good to hear. I know the news kept talking about a wild fire out there...I did wonder whether it was the same one he was fighting.

 

I took some meal out of the mill from the mesquite charcoal and lit it...actually seemed OK. I might be on par with "mixed hardwoods," which can be made serviceable with enough milling. This should be interesting...

[flying fish]

Update on the mesquite charcoal BP...

 

I milled it for about 8 hours in a ball mill and riced with 2% red gum and denatured alcohol.

 

I had first a tennis ball and second a 50 gram dummy 3" shell (real weight of a plastic 3"er would be more like 70-80 grams - typical lazy me...couldn't be bothered with finding a filler of the appropriate weight).

 

The first attempt, I decided to see how far the tennis ball by itself would fly with a small scoup of riced BP (4.2 grams). This only went up about 6 feet or so. No big surprise...

 

Then onto the dummy shell, natually lifted with the "only logical amount", 17.3 grams. BANG! Flew almost twice as high as the tree line and took a weird curve far out before dropping into the woods, probably about what I would like for a 3"er as far as raw height goes, don't know about the weird curve thing. The mortar was wet, so maybe it put a spin on the shell. I might lift the real thing a little harder due to the increased weight...say 20 grams.

 

Well, that's about what I expected anywho for cheap homemade powder. Generally twice as much as I would use with commercial or good, corned BP.

 

God, I can't wait to get that alder...I'll be able to send some shells into the stratosphere! (or just disentegrate my mortars)

[scarbelly]

Well its good that you were able to get it to work. But yeah, that's quite a lot of lift haha. I've basically put pyro on hold until the alder comes.

[flying fish]

I went ahead and dumped a whole 20 grams in, lol. 75 gram shell.

 

"Damn, that's a lot of lift son!" (little voice in my head) A lot of lift for a lightweight ball shell, anywho.

 

Edit: 20 grams seemed about optimal! The height was perfect. It didn't go quite as high as the dummy, but I think the dummy went a little higher than necessary. Now that I have my lift "dialed in", I'm not so sure I even want to switch to the alder...I'll have to do the lift calibration all over again!

 

Unfortunately the camera man missed most of it, but it was a nearly perfect shell. I'll still post the video sometime...well I don't have access to the video tape untill next weekend. I love how easy plastic ball shells are to make...and how surprising well they seem to break for me. I'm trying to work my way into canister shells so that I can start learning how to build multis, but it's awfully hard when I have to resist the instant-gratification from these plastic shells. But now I'm really rambling...

Edited August 17, 2009 by flying fish

[50AE]

I suppose no one or few have tried plum charcoal (prunus domestica). Gonna try it soon and report the results here.

 

http://www.netikka.net/matti.nyberg/Prunus.JPG

[andyboy]

I suppose no one or few have tried plum charcoal (prunus domestica). Gonna try it soon and report the results here.

 

http://www.netikka.net/matti.nyberg/Prunus.JPG

 

 

I tried it when my milling technique was lacking and it was the charcoal for me since it outperformed anything I had ever come across, I still think it is at least up to par with willow.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

1, 4, 5, and 6 are not based in reality for everyone.

 

There are many sources that will sell off sawdust and scrap for practically nothing. Even from the commercial source of submicron saw dust, it still is at most a few dollars a pound.

 

It is very light, but no one I know loads their BP by volume. They load it by weight. Yes, there is the optimal 1/4 material charge, but it doesn't matter, and it packs down pretty well by the end.

 

It has always been pretty consistent for everyone I know who has made it. It's not like newspaper charcoal.

 

Many have noted it to be significantly more violent in it's burning. I think it has a lot to do with the density. A lot has to do with already being a submicron powder, far finer than any ball mill can take it. If you're cooking balsa logs, this will be different.

 

Just because the above list is true for you, does not mean it applies to everyone.

 

I didn´t want to provoke a debate on principles concerning balsa charcoal. I basically don´t care if people continue to use balsa or not, but the balsa thing is actually tending to become the same kind of a myth that was around about willow charcoal several years ago: it said that willow is "the unequalled fastest", or simply "the best". Many educated researchers such as van Maltitz and testers such as Wilson etc. soon proved that there were equal and better choices, while the industry has never relied on such hypes anyway.

 

I simply don´t get why people have to rely on a wood coming from the tropics while very serious and proven alternatives are growing around the next corner. Again - this remains up to everyone.

 

I´m also loading my mill based on weighted materials, but the choice how much weight to use is certainly based on volume considerations. I´ve recently done some simple volume measurements saying that I can put about 40% more (by weight) into the same jar if I use black alder instead of alder buckthorn (it is another question if I would do it if I know that the latter is the better choice). I don´t know how much more volume the same weight of balsa takes up, but it remains a serious defect if I have to mill twice to get the same amount of material processed.

 

I really consider you to be an authority in many aspects, Mumbles, but I guess I´ll have to disagree in this special case. Our realities indeed seem to differ.

[Ventsi]

That's good to hear. I know the news kept talking about a wild fire out there...I did wonder whether it was the same one he was fighting.

 

I took some meal out of the mill from the mesquite charcoal and lit it...actually seemed OK. I might be on par with "mixed hardwoods," which can be made serviceable with enough milling. This should be interesting...

 

 

Are you guys talking about the fires in the Santa Cruz mountains? " 5,000 acres scorched, 1,500 firemen on the front..." I think thats it since on the CC site it says the owner's is from around here. Me and my family took a stroll down to the beach and it really smelled like smoke the whole way through! It's good to see that folks are volunteering to help stop the wildfire, I know I would if I was of age.

 

FF: I've made some quite decent BP using the bag of Mesquite I bought a while ago. Never bothered to use it for lift , after some millinh it made some killer 4oz enburners. Here is a video of one:

 

 

Can you send me a PM of how that Alder Charcoal is? I'm thinking about buying and splitting a box with someone here , if they are interested that is.

[Twotails]

I wonder how reactive an ivy is? I know not to burn Poison ivy, but i have some Thick creepng charlys on my land, there about an inch thick with realy thin paper bark.

 

also what about white burch(i have some logs out back from when a burch fell), and black walnut?

 

Im making crab-apple charcoal tomorrow, i'll be making powder from it in maby a few weeks.

[Ventsi]

Let me know how that Ivy BP goes, me and my friend cleaned up his tree and now he's got a few 2.5" thick, hairy Ivy trunks laying around as trofy.

[Ralph]

i have made charcoal from crab apple it is prety much the same as apple and is quite fast

[scarbelly]

We were talking about the fire up in shasta county, that's where the guy from customcharcoal is from.

I'm sure we'll be able to tell you how it is, but it may be a while before it reaches either of us...

 

EDIT: The shasta county fire had burned upwards of 17,000 acres last I checked. But I believe it's nearly contained

Edited August 18, 2009 by scarbelly

[Twotails]

Ended up making BP with ivys today insted of CA, first was the creeping charly, it had a nice fast clean burn ( 100g test batch unmilled, but processed by hand in a morder and pestal). I also some useing Poison Ivy. first a few words of caution, the smoke is bad, do not get the smoke in your lungs/on you. also were gloves when working with the plant. I choped down some nice 1/4-1/2inch stalks of the poison ivy, and prepared them in a paint can like i would do normaly. The resulting charcoal i spread out on a cookie sheet, and let cool. the charcoal was soft, and looked like crap, but oh well. I ground it threw a meat grinder, I then made a 100g batch just like before. End product: one of the fastest BP i've made this year, Its a nice powder, and looks interesting, not realy black like im use to ( i normaly use Lampblack+ a pine resin, works suprisingly well with the fresh scent of pine) it was slightly lighter in color. Overall: I would make it again, but first i need to find more ivy....