Rolling Tubes

[dagabu]

Use wheat starch instead, boil it 10:1 water to starch, let cool and use as is or dilute slightly.

 

The gluten in raw flour5 is 1/4 the strength of the boiled item. It also shrinks when drying, don't leave the rammer in the tube when drying.

 

-dag

[Col]

Cheers Dag, i`ll ask the missus to keep an eye open for some wheat starch, i guess a chinese supermarket would be the best bet?

The rod is just an odd piece of 3/4" T6 ally, i`ll leave in it just to see how hard it is to get out

I came across this page while looking for wheat paste recipes that reckons the peel strength of wheat paste is stronger than full strength wood glue. My link

If that info is accurate, it should handle at least 5700psi. I`ll be surprised if it does but live in hope cos flour is a lot cheaper than pva.

[dagabu]

Cheers Dag, i`ll ask the missus to keep an eye open for some wheat starch, i guess a chinese supermarket would be the best bet?

 

It's used in pancakes, noodles and pastas plus lots of white bread. It should be available at any good whole foods store and baking goods store.

 

-dag

[btdk34]

Huh, that sounds interesting! I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I read somewhere online that this stuff only lasts for a week before it goes bad... is this true?

[dagabu]

If left at room temp, it can go bad overnight. If refrigerated, expect it to last about as long as milk. Only make what you need, it does not store well without a preservative.

 

-dag

[Col]

Quick update,

The wheat paste tube seems pretty dry and it cuts about the same as a pva glued tube... like sawing a piece of hardwood. It weighs 3g more than a pva glued tube so i`m not sure if its completely dry or if the wheatpaste adds more weight than pva.

Getting the former out of the tube involved mole grips and a piece of leather to turn the former and break the glue seal. It came out easy enough after that

I`ll give it another day to make sure its 100% dry before i destroy it with the press

[dagabu]

Pretty tube Col, you could sell those.

 

-dag

[val77]

hey guys

when I ride a tube with paper (I roll it around a wooden stick) and although the wooden stick is stuck in the tube .... ..

you know why it is in? paper too tightly?

if you have a tutorial to fully roll tubes? for me when I roll them they are never perfectly straight because the paper is not well in the axis of the tube ...

 

thanks for your response

[Col]

Hey Dag, I could but i`d never get rich with my productivity

val, dont put any glue on the first turn that ends up against the former, its about 60mm for a 3/4" tube. As you roll the 1st turn of paper over the former you apply a 1/2" band of glue to the leading edge (on top) so it forms a glue to glue seal.

Draw some guide lines on your rolling board, it`ll help to keep things straight. I`d recommend using a polished aluminium or stainless steel former. so the glue can`t stick to it.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Col

[val77]

ok thanks !

[taiwanluthiers]

One word of caution...

 

do NOT roll tubes with washable glue!!!

 

I rolled a few because I was given some by a friend, and the resultant tube was so weak I could squeeze it with finger pressure (the glue was very fragile like glass)

 

Normally you have to squeeze very very hard to deform it.

[val77]

wood glue is perfect for the tubes

[Col]

Pva definitely has the edge

The failure point of the wheat paste tube was 3900psi (unsupported). The supported test (9,500psi) wasnt as good either, the end of the tube had 3 well defined rings where the wall had delaminated and shifted under pressure.

Overall, the wheat paste was a fair bit behind the pva but still servicable for less energetic applications. I tested a commercial spiral wound 3/4" tube (4.5mm wall) which looked like it was made from some kind of compressed grey fluff, and that didnt even make it to 2500psi.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Col

[val77]

tonight I rolled my first perfect tube! I used double-gluing technique and it work perfectly!

Do you have photos attached below!

ID = 12mm

http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/16/97/86/45/imag0010.jpg http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/16/97/86/45/imag0011.jpg

 

What do you think? Personally, this is the first time I managed a tube

[Col]

Looks ok to me..well done

[btdk34]

Nice job, Val77!

 

After my MANY struggles with rolling tubes over the past weeks, I found a method that works, so I thought I'd quick share. I'm rolling 3/8" ID 9/16" OD x 3" long tubes, and I only roll a single tube at a time using a 4" x 20" piece of 60# virgin kraft. I only single coat about 3-4" of the paper at a time to keep it from bubbling before I can roll it, which seems to work quite well. The only problem I have is sometimes the tube does not want to roll straight.

 

A quick question for you veteran rocket makers, are there standard tube OD's for 1 oz, 2 oz, and 4 oz tubes?

[Col]

I use 2.5mm wall for 4oz, but only because its provides a perfect fit for my support tube. As long as it can take the pressure you can use any wall thickness.

[dagabu]

Nice job, Val77!

 

After my MANY struggles with rolling tubes over the past weeks, I found a method that works, so I thought I'd quick share. I'm rolling 3/8" ID 9/16" OD x 3" long tubes, and I only roll a single tube at a time using a 4" x 20" piece of 60# virgin kraft. I only single coat about 3-4" of the paper at a time to keep it from bubbling before I can roll it, which seems to work quite well. The only problem I have is sometimes the tube does not want to roll straight.

 

A quick question for you veteran rocket makers, are there standard tube OD's for 1 oz, 2 oz, and 4 oz tubes?

 

I am afraid that there are no standards for the OD of the tubes, only the ID. For example, I have 1 pound heavy wall and regular wall NEPT tubes that are both considered to be the standard in their field but are both a lot smaller OD then chipboard tubes.

 

-dag

Edited August 3, 2012 by dagabu

[val77]

hey dag

for 12mm id tubes I have a 3mm wall which gives an external diameter of 18mm

Edited August 3, 2012 by val77

[dagabu]

hey dag

for 12mm id tubes I have a 3mm wall which gives an external diameter of 18mm

 

That sounds about right for kraft paper tubes.

 

-dag

[val77]

is not a kraft paper this is a copy paper

[Col]

I finally got around to building a tube rolling machine so my hand roilling days are over and my productivity is up

[dan999ification]

nice work col, looks less complicated than the one ive been dreaming up, still cant get round a few things, ive got so many questions, can we have a video to save a few?

 

 

Dan.

[val77]

HOW IT'S MADE ?

[Col]

This one is very basic, just to test the design. Its manually operated and rolls 1/2"-7/8" id tubes upto 12" long.

I`ve made a start on a more complex semi auto version (1/2HP motor powered) that will roll 1/2" to 2" id tubes upto 30" long in less than 30 seconds.