How to "automate" tube loading?

[dan999ification]

The slide hammer you're talking about is likely the one on passfire.

 

you may be right i think i saw it on displayfireworks1 but dont remember the original source or maker.

 

dan.

[patsroom]

Hey Oldguy, I just want to know what it is that you want to do for sure? Do you want to press just one gerb at a time or a group? Do you want to have a pre measuring device to load the gerb(s) at a time? How many gerbs at a time? Or is it just to press one gerb at a time?..........Lots of questions huh? < Did it again

..............Pat

Edit: What does "MCNC " mean? Just can't stop myself on the questions today.....

Edited December 13, 2011 by patsroom

[dan999ification]

Hey Oldguy, I just want to know what it is that you want to do for sure? Do you want to press just one gerb at a time or a group? Do you want to have a pre measuring device to load the gerb(s) at a time? How many gerbs at a time? Or is it just to press one gerb at a time?..........Lots of questions huh? < Did it again

..............Pat

Edit: What does "MCNC " mean? Just can't stop myself on the questions today.....

 

 

multiple items at once, and micro crystaline nitro cellulose.

 

dan.

[oldguy]

Apparently, I overstated what I am trying to do. It doesn't really need to be multiples loaded at once, as that complicates the loading process.

I would prefer the tube loading operation to be as "toilet flush" simple, as possible.

 

To be more exact, what I am trying to do is speed up or at partially automate loading a torch type fusee tube one at a time.

As stated above, the comp contains a significant amount of MCNC, which has a very high binding capacity when compressed under minimal pressure into a hard dense durable plastic like mass.

 

Loading through a funnel, ½ ton hand operated arbor press works well. Without using the arbor press, a light tap tap on a hardwood dowel, hard round plastic or brass rod with a 2 lb dead blow hammer will do the job. So, it doesn't take all that much pressure to get the job done.

 

Displaying my ignorance, trouble I see with a DA pneumatic air cylinder is the stroke length. As the tube fills each stoke would need to be shorter & shorter. All the air cylinders I have looked at are a fixed stroke length. Is there a way to get around that issue without reinventing the wheel?

Edited December 14, 2011 by oldguy

[killforfood]

Hey Oldguy,

 

I dug through my junk drawers and found a pnuematic foot valve.

I also have a couple of brand new Bimba cylinders that might work for you from an abandoned automatic spud canon project.

let me know if you want them.

I would accept any offer like, I dunno, free.

Just cover shipping.

I may also have a speed controller but need to dig some more.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/Footvalve003.jpg

 

I'll get the cylinder pictures up later tonight.

[patsroom]

Displaying my ignorance, trouble I see with a DA pneumatic air cylinder is the stroke length. As the tube fills each stoke would need to be shorter & shorter. All the air cylinders I have looked at are a fixed stroke length. Is there a way to get around that issue without reinventing the wheel?

 

 

 

 

It could be that a spring could control the amount of pressure that is applied to the comp when it is compress. By placing the spring between the ramming rod and the pneumatic air cylinder rod.

It would allow the distance to become shorter and shorter..........Pat

Edited December 14, 2011 by patsroom

[NightHawkInLight]

Displaying my ignorance, trouble I see with a DA pneumatic air cylinder is the stroke length. As the tube fills each stoke would need to be shorter & shorter. All the air cylinders I have looked at are a fixed stroke length. Is there a way to get around that issue without reinventing the wheel?

 

That doesn't matter. If the cylinder is run on the pressure required for the proper force on the comp it will exert the same amount of force whether it is able to fully extend or not. You actually do not want it to be able to fully extend or it will not be able to deal out consistent pressure because it will bottom out before the grain is fully compacted. 50 psi is 50 psi, no matter what the volume the internals of the cylinder are allowed to extend to.

[Col]

NHL is on the money, just set the regulator on the compressor to X psi. Cylinders usually have a working pressure range of something like 0.5-10bar (7-150psi) so there`s plenty of scope.

It might be worth using a dedicated regulator near the cylinder along with a good digital air pressure gauge for better accuracy.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Col

[allrocketspsl]

After a lot of googling, I found most factory made industrial quality pneumatic air press's run from about $400 & up used on ebay. New cost can run into thousands of dollars.

 

Example of a $600 press on eBay below:

 

 

Nor could I find one that suits everything I want in an automated press. Most were vertical action and I would like one that will operate both vertical, horizontal and at various angles in between for differing load and feed applications.

 

So, I got to looking around on eBay and found all sorts, bore, stroke, shapes, sizes of single and double action pneumatic air cylinders at what I consider reasonable prices. Looks like I will build one. Bear in mind, I don't need tons of pressure using a MCNC comp. I couldn't be much more difficult the building my big bertha ball mill.

 

 

 

 

 

javascript:;

[killforfood]

I dug a little deeper in the junk drawers and found a bunch more parts.

The cylinder is only 1.5". I'm not sure if that is enough pressure for your needs.

There's plenty of 1/8" npt and 1/4" npt push loc fittings and a couple speed controllers, regulators and valves.

I even found another foot valve.

Let me know if you can use any of it.

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/IMG_0792.jpg

[oldguy]

I dug a little deeper in the junk drawers and found a bunch more parts.

The cylinder is only 1.5". I'm not sure if that is enough pressure for your needs.

There's plenty of 1/8" npt and 1/4" npt push loc fittings and a couple speed controllers, regulators and valves.

I even found another foot valve.

Let me know if you can use any of it.

 

 

PM SENT.....

[oldguy]

NHL is on the money, just set the regulator on the compressor to X psi. Cylinders usually have a working pressure range of something like 0.5-10bar (7-150psi) so there`s plenty of scope.

It might be worth using a dedicated regulator near the cylinder along with a good digital air pressure gauge for better accuracy.

 

 

A big thanks to BOTH you and NHL. Learning a lot here, without spendiing big bucks tinkering around with things I would never need.

 

LOL........ check this automated loading machine out.

 

 

http://www.setpointusa.com/custom-machines/pyrotechnic-powder-loading-and-assembly.html

 

 

[Col]

That doesn`t look cheap and it wouldn`t fit in my shed either

Something else to consider is double acting cylinders consume air on both strokes so a small compressor might be running quite often with a big cylinder. The unit i have takes 0.3 cubic feet for full travel so i might get 10 strokes before the compressor kicks in if i`m lucky..good thing its a quiet one .

Edited December 14, 2011 by Col

[patsroom]

Hey! What's happening. Let see some plans drawn up so we can get started on this!!!! ...........Pat

[killforfood]

Patience Man, Patience,

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/Footvalve002.jpg

 

I've been pilfering my junk drawers for all of the pneumatic bits and pieces to make it happen. I love junk drawers.

 

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/Footvalve006.jpg

 

Hey Oldguy,

I found a much more robust regulator and a couple old filters (if you think your air needs filtering).

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/Footvalve008.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/Footvalve010.jpg

 

If you're interested, I found a 24v solenoid valve and 24v power supply. It could easily be actuated using the intermittent E-stop button switch.

 

 

 

After seeing how well his ball mill turned out; I'm sure whatever Oldguy builds out of this junk will be a thing of beauty.

[killforfood]

I cobbled together some parts to show an easy way to control the cylinder using a 24v solenoid.

It's more complicated than it needs to be since it introduces electricity to the mix. But hey, it's fun to play.

 

Click on the picture to watch the video.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/th_Footvalve016.jpg

[patsroom]

Good show! For finding in a junk box, it makes me wish I had a junk box like yours.

(Back to to auto-press.) It looks like that would be a great start to a auto-press I hope he gets it started soon and show us what he comes up with.

[oldguy]

 

Found a beefy floor mount bench grinder stand @ Harbor Freight under $40.

 

Plan to cut the stand pipe off to shorten its height to make it suitable as a eye level bench mount.

 

Base, mid level & top plate all will rotate 360 & bolt in place tight.

 

Mid level plate can be raised or lowered up or down the stand pipe for adjustable height.

 

Will modify the top plate so several differing size pneumatic cylinders can be bolted on it.

 

 

A work in progress.

Edited January 3, 2012 by oldguy

[dagabu]

 

 

Found a beefy floor mount bench grinder stand @ Harbor Freight under $40.

 

Plan to cut the stand pipe off to shorten its height to make it suitable as a eye level bench mount.

 

Base, mid level & top plate all will rotate 360 & bolt in place tight.

 

Mid level plate can be raised or lowered up or down the stand pipe for adjustable height.

 

Will modify the top plate so several differing size pneumatic cylinders can be bolted on it.

 

A work in progress.

 

I like the way you think, looks like I need to make a trip to HF.

 

-dag

 

 

[oldguy]

I was going to build one out of 3 inch channel iron.

But, this heavy duty stand fits the bill, is ready made & cheaper.

Fact you can swivel the top plate to rotate from one cylinder to another is a plus.

[oldguy]

 

About a 15 minute job to cut the standpipe down to bench level size & drill out the top plate slats to accept a couple pneumatic cylinders.

[killforfood]

This is looking really good. I knew you would come up with something clever. But WOW! A dual piston rotating pedestal base! Very cool

[oldguy]

After looking at all sorts of ammo reloading powder measures.

None have the holding / dispensing capacity I want.

 

Now trying to conjure up A DIY one to clamp on the top plate.

 

 

[dagabu]

OG,

 

How about a larger version of the LEE adjustable charge bar?

 

http://images.the4sportsmen.com/v/vspfiles/Linked/LEE/lee90792.jpg

 

 

-dag

[oldguy]

Acetal/Delrin plastic is tough stuff. I am thinking a round rod of it, shaped to suit, might be applicable for a rotator cup in a PVC pipe to deliver incremental amounts of powder into a funnel like device, the ramming rod would fit through. Which would rotate with every plunge of the pneumatic ram rod.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

 

Something like this,

 

 

which could be attached to the same plate the pneumatic cylinder is bolted to, feeding into a funnel..

 

The question being would it JAM up, if 30/40 mesh metal were included in the comp?

 

　

 

Edited January 8, 2012 by oldguy