How to "automate" tube loading?

[oldguy]

Utilizing a composition that is impart MCNC, which compacts under minimal pressure into a hard plastic like mass (advantage being dry loading & no other binder needed).

How would one automate loading tubes for torches, fusee’s, gerbs, fountains, etc?

A small arbor press works well. But the by hand manual loading process is slow.

So, I am looking for some sort of foot petal operated low or adjustable pressure pneumatic press.

 

Any pointers, directions, tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[patsroom]

I have seen pictures of a hand press that would do a group of gerbs at a time. So it is quite posible to make a auto-loading machine if one was to put thought into it. Being able to do just one or two at a time would be nice. I wish you luck and hope you do find a way to build one. And share with us as to how it turns out as well as how to build one as well...........Pat

[oldguy]

After a lot of googling, I found most factory made industrial quality pneumatic air press’s run from about $400 & up used on ebay. New cost can run into thousands of dollars.

 

Example of a $600 press on eBay below:

 

 

Nor could I find one that suits everything I want in an automated press. Most were vertical action and I would like one that will operate both vertical, horizontal and at various angles in between for differing load and feed applications.

 

So, I got to looking around on eBay and found all sorts, bore, stroke, shapes, sizes of single and double action pneumatic air cylinders at what I consider reasonable prices. Looks like I will build one. Bear in mind, I don’t need tons of pressure using a MCNC comp. I couldn’t be much more difficult the building my big bertha ball mill.

 

 

 

 

[dan999ification]

you can make a multiple drift plate, wolter sells i think but its spendy, as for loading have you seen the slide hammer jig for ramming girandola/endburner motors? one at a time but it dispenses the powder in increments and rams, if you must press the multiple drift plate and a loading tool the chinese use which is basically two sheets of wood the depth of which is the same as your tube id, drilled out in the same pattern[formation] as the drift plate, you load the top holes with comp sit the dispenser on the tubes and slide the top plate which lines up the holes and dispenses the powder to the tubes below you could even leave it on between presses, its used for rocket making 20 plus at a time and sometimes loading firecrackers.

linear motion actuators [work any way up] are a good start to getting an automated press going i was browsing mc master for my dream press parts and they have some good stuff to put together.

i can find some video of the tools i mentioned if you havnt seen them or dont understand my description.

 

dan.

[oldguy]

i can find some video of the tools i mentioned if you havnt seen them or dont understand my description.

dan.

 

Thanks, I would appreciate that.... very much.

I sort of get the idea, but pictures or video is worth many thousand words.

[pyrogeorge]

Hi,

i found a pneumatic press with no cost but the piston come out only 15cm.

Is it enough for pyro uses?Or need bigger piston?

thanks

Edited December 12, 2011 by pyrogeorge

[NightHawkInLight]

What's wrong with a hydraulic press? It will give you more options if you ever build larger rockets or comets.

[pyrogeorge]

I think that need bigger piston to come out more than 15cm..or not?

[Arthur]

See whether any of the youtube vids of tablet presses offer clues

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGrekYr2iCs&feature=related

 

Do note that other users have other uses for these machines!

[oldguy]

What's wrong with a hydraulic press? It will give you more options if you ever build larger rockets or comets.

 

I have one (HF). It suits it purpose.

Using MCNC comps, doesn't require that much pressure.

It is also slow. Using that H-press & trying to put togather 50 units of anything is a tedious process.

[NightHawkInLight]

I have one (HF). It suits it purpose.

Using MCNC comps, doesn't require that much pressure.

It is also slow. Using that H-press & trying to put togather 50 units of anything is a tedious process.

 

Have you considered making something that would function similarly to a star plate? You might be able to press 10 or so at a time on your H frame with a well made plate. The top plate with all the drifts would have to be heavy steel, but the bottom which would house the tubes could be HDPE or any number of other things. Maybe even layered particle board.

[oldguy]

See whether any of the youtube vids of tablet presses offer clues

 

Thanks Arthur.

I looked at tablet press's.

I assume they would be great for some types of "star's".

But, tube loading is a whole differing can of worms.

 

Check out the automated beer/soda can crushers on youtube:

 

 

Edited December 12, 2011 by oldguy

[dagabu]

I have one (HF). It suits it purpose.

Using MCNC comps, doesn't require that much pressure.

It is also slow. Using that H-press & trying to put togather 50 units of anything is a tedious process.

 

Why not remove the toothed rack from the arbor press and install a DA pneumatic cylinder in its place sitting on top of the press and a pneumatic foot pedal controlling the cylinder? Virtually instant pressing and a known pressure each stroke.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

Why not remove the toothed rack from the arbor press and install a DA pneumatic cylinder in its place sitting on top of the press and a pneumatic foot pedal controlling the cylinder? Virtually instant pressing and a known pressure each stroke.

 

-dag

 

I like that kind of thinking.

What does "DA" stand for?

Down Angle?

[dagabu]

I like that kind of thinking.

What does "DA" stand for?

Down Angle?

 

Sorry, no. Double Acting.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

Sorry, no. Double Acting.

 

-dag

 

Gothca boss......

[warthog]

I'm interested to see how this turns out.

 

I would think a combination of the DA pneumatic press along with the "Star Plate" made to press gerbs instead would be the ticket. The only thing I can see here is that you would need two top plates, one that makes the nozzles and first few increments and then one with flat faced rammers to make the body of the gerb and the bottom bulkhead. Of course you could use only flat ones and hand drill all of the nozzles but then the drilling would become the tedious part of the project.

[Col]

You could use a flat drift and press the clay increment a tad over the spindle. You`d need to drill maybe 1/8" of clay but that wouldn`t take much with the pre pressed hole to guide the drill bit.

[oldguy]

I'm shopping around for a large used bench top drill press, to see if if I can mount a DA pneumatic cylinder on the column.

That way I could raise or lower the cylinder as needed.

[Mumbles]

Many of the commercial proximate pyro manufacturers dont even have nozzle forming jigs. It's more cost effective and easier to drill them by hand.

 

Oldguy, it sounds like you'll need something called shifting boards. Pretty much it's a board with holes drilled in in that are filled with composition with a removable sheet or plate below it. You fill the holes with granular composition, even it off, and pull the board out to allow the granules to drop into each tube. Typically there will be a large press plate similar to a star plate or these: http://www.firesmithtools.com/#/multi_plates/ The longer pins are more typical of what you'd see. There is also typically a plate over the top of the tubes themselves with a tapered opening to act as sort of a funnel into the tubes. The rammers can be pressed through the holes in the shifting board, or the shifting board can be removed if desired and easy to line up.

[dan999ification]

I would appreciate that.... very much.

 

i hope so, i realised what a task it was when one of the channels i thought it was on had over 1500 vids [ it wasn't on there ]

seriously no problem.

http://youtu.be/i4p_rFtC6Vg

the wolter tool is a serpent pump with lots of drifts like seen in the vid

 

edit: while were on the subject of mass producing here is another very handy channel with some factory footage on producing big cakes and fusing

 

 

dan.

Edited December 13, 2011 by dan999ification

[Mumbles]

The first video is about as close to commercial proximate processes as you'll see. Look around 30 seconds to see the bulk gerb/rocket press and shifting boards.

[NightHawkInLight]

The first video is about as close to commercial proximate processes as you'll see. Look around 30 seconds to see the bulk gerb/rocket press and shifting boards.

 

That's just what I was imagining, a monster star plate. I didn't know that's actually what was used.

[dan999ification]

good thing is the only mechanical action you really need is to lift the large flat stone that provides the compression [then drop it slowly] you could build a frame with paving slabs as the weight because you dont need so much pressure you dont need so much weight, you could do it with a car or bottle jack for next to no money.

the powder dispenser in my mind needs to have the tubes either arranged in a bundle/hexagon to deliver the powder on target or set as square with the bottom plate having holes the size of the tube/sleeve od to fit the tops and the top plate having a depth the same as the tube id to make one increment.

i still need to find the slide hammer jig on film its an american machine i think the plans are publicly available and from/with a tool supplier [you can diy it from hardware shop materials].

 

dan.

 

 

[Mumbles]

The slide hammer you're talking about is likely the one on passfire.