Balsa, Paulownia charcoal

[Algenco]

Now I think I understand one of the primary reasons they make hot BP.

 

It's volume! I've been cooking Paulownia and run some though the meat grinder today, very soft, easy to process.

 

1lb is all that can be stuffed into a 1gal bag

 

When comparing Paulownia to say commercial airfloat the same weight of Paulownia at least 5 times the volume

[50AE]

Willow and poplar should not be underestimated in volume as well.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

You'll get less charcoal and you'll need less

[Algenco]

You'll get less charcoal and you'll need less

 

 

that's what I confused about.

 

I made a 1k batch of KP, after I added the 145g of charcoal the volume of the mix was around 3/4 gal.

The 145g of Paulownia charcoal was 3 times the volume of the other ingredients.

It's seems like too much charcoal, do you use less when using highly reactive lightweight charcoal?

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I mean, when you cook paulownia you'll get less charcoal compared to other kinds of wood, but you'll need less amount of lift when you make your BP with paulownia charcoal.

[Algenco]

It just seemed there was an awful lot of charcoal in the mix.

 

1 gram of Paulownia is about 30cc

 

 

[Peret]

The chemistry of compositions is worked out based on weight, not volume, so no matter how fluffy and voluminous your charcoal is, you need to use the same proportion by weight. I noticed the same effect when I started using home-milled willow charcoal - it seemed like an overwhelming quantity. But it's the weight that counts.When you mill it with the other components, it will come down in size. Edited August 18, 2010 by Peret

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Balsa is even worser than paulownia.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

In some applications it´s volume that counts.

 

For example when loading a mill or when compressing comps into a fountain. Both may not present a problem, but should be taken into account when choosing raw materials.

 

Paulownia is voluminous, a fact that actually saves you weight when using it in burst powders, pasted on hulls.

[Mumbles]

After being milled it all becomes denser to some degree. Some people have reported having to add the charcoal in two increments in order to keep the volume under control. This was specifically with Balsa.

 

Have you guys noticed a difference in volume of milled and granulated or pressed/corned BP? IE would balsa 2FA take up more volume than willow or maple 2FA.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Have you guys noticed a difference in volume of milled and granulated or pressed/corned BP? IE would balsa 2FA take up more volume than willow or maple 2FA.

 

Real 2FA equivalent, being corned as its commercial relative, shows a known weight to volume relationship (density) which always is about 1,7g/ccm. Thus balsa 2FA would be exactly as voluminous as e.g. oak 2FA, but it - obviously - would be a lot harder to compress it to the desired final density.

 

I´ve never used or compared balsa to xy in this terms, but believe me when I say that you even notice a difference between willow and black alder when corning. The latter occupies only about 20-25% less volume than the former, but the resulting powder is considerably easier to press to 1,7g/ccm. From all I´ve experienced in this field, I doubt that my 10 ton setup would even succeed compressing balsa powder sufficiently, unless probably with days of dwell time.

 

There are many hidden advantages in using the denser of two charcoals; most of which are not obvious at first sight.

Edited August 20, 2010 by AdmiralDonSnider

[SB15]

The greater reaction rate of lower density charcoals such as Balsa and Paulownia is more related to the surface area and gas permeability of the grain structure than the apparent volume. These woods are very lightweight as a result of the large amount of air space in the solid structure, which helps the flame front to pass through the matrix more quickly, and the material to react in a shorter time frame.

 

Balsa wood cooked in a retort at a relatively low temperature (~450F) produces the fastest pyrotechnic charcoal I've ever seen, but I'm usually pretty happy with the performance of White Spruce, which is commonly found as low priced construction lumber around here.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I recall some use balsa scrap, even dust to make charcoal. Which sources do you get such from?

[oldguy]

In the USA you can find Balsa wood on ebay in lots.

Mostly from model airplane builders.

But, sometimes from other uses.

It's usually expensive.

 

Example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Huge-Lot-Balsa-Wood-RC-Hobbyist-Great-Lot-no-Reserve-/160754416214?_trksid=p4340.m444&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%252BCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%252BSI%252BUA%252BLM%252BLA%26otn%3D15%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6813815110283400372

[warthog]

I recall some use balsa scrap, even dust to make charcoal. Which sources do you get such from?

 

I answered your query in the gallery where you asked me.

[dagabu]

Specialized Balsa usually has fair prices on Balsa scrap.

 

LINK

 

-dag

Edited March 6, 2012 by dagabu

[oldguy]

Whoot whoot ........

THANK YOU for the link.

[mikeee]

Has anyone ever used cork to make charcoal for pyro use?

Since soft woods like Balsa & Paulownia work so well.

You would think Cork would be a possible good choice.

Any info/reply would be appreciated.

 

Thank You

 

Mikeee

[JFeve81]

Agree with oldguy. Thanks for the link Dag.

 

Which one of those scraps would be good for charcoal for BP. Blocks I'm assuming or does it really matter?

[Peret]

I was given some balsa charcoal last year. It really is light and voluminous - a well stuffed gallon bag holds barely 4 ounces. I found it very difficult to work with, as it tends to separate out from anything you mix it with and the compounds don't consolidate well. I haven't yet milled any of it into BP but it made some awesome KP burst. It won't stick properly to the hulls even with gum arabic mixed in, but the very light coating I did achieve works better than 4:1 BP hulls.

[oldguy]

I am really curious if Coir would make good pyro charcoal.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coir

 

I have access to large compressed blocks of it for a very good price.

 

Anybody have any thoughts on Coir?

Edited March 7, 2012 by oldguy

[Mumbles]

First impression would be that it's not great. I'd think it may be similar to other fibrous materials like hemp or bamboo. Both of them are said to be middle of the road at best. Another similar charcoal would be that made directly from coconut shell, as well as activated charcoal which is sometimes made from coconut charcoal and further processed. Again, neither of these are generally all that great of performers. It certainly can't hurt to try it out, but given the track record of similar materials I wouldn't go in with a lot of excitement.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Specialized Balsa usually has fair prices on Balsa scrap.

 

LINK

 

-dag

 

Nice source. Anyone knows an EU equivalent to this one?

[taiwanluthiers]

I just cooked some Paulownia charcoal. The wood is plentiful and cheap, but the density is so low that 30g would fill an entire 150cc cup! As far as woodworking the wood is nearly useless for me because its too light but once charred its easy to work with. I can easily crush it into smaller chunks with a spoon, then feed it into the ball mill to reduce its particle size further. I couldn't do that with BBQ charcoal because it's hard as a rock and very dense.

[50AE]

In movies, the most of the wooden furniture is made from balsa wood, because it's light and soft - safer flying pieces from explosions and the furniture are often used to be broken, sometimes in the actor's or stunt's body. I can get scrap pieces easily