Color of smoke from explosions?

[Bcorso85]

They knew damn well they can't come take our mags away, and damn well we won't voluntarily turn them in.

[Bobosan]

Complete stupidity, and will not stop another theft of a gun to be used in the crime. The newtown shoot and columbine used stolen guns, gun owners are being punished as they've obeyed they laws

 

This is the very reason the currently proposed gun legislation has failed.

[tangent]

http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/9352013422133751713926.pdf

 

Section F on pages 8 and 9 say it was a low power explosive and contained green hobby fuse.

 

-t

[Arthur]

In the UK hand guns are banned and explosives are very tightly regulated but terrorists still managed to get truck bonbs into Canary Wharf and Bishops Gate, and the IRA in one of it's forms had ground to air missiles.

[BurritoBandito]

It could have been a lot of things and I'm surprised the government doesn't have fairly sophisticated ways of determining the explosive used.

 

I'm pretty sure they could use some sort of solvent to take a sample from the pressure cooker shrapnel they've recovered and preform a gas chromatography to determine what it was.

[Mumbles]

GC wouldn't work on black powder or pyrodex.

[tangent]

In the UK hand guns are banned and explosives are very tightly regulated but terrorists still managed to get truck bonbs into Canary Wharf and Bishops Gate, and the IRA in one of it's forms had ground to air missiles.

 

Black market or home made?

 

link?

 

There are standard tests to determine what an explosive was from residues. I would think they knew what it was in under 30 minutes.

 

That this is being withheld, worries me. It suggests a political agenda - as in legislation.

 

-t

Edited April 22, 2013 by tangent

[pyrokid]

I hope that fuse doesn't become part of this. That would be too much.

[tangent]

Any thoughts on how to do pyro without BP or manufactured fuse?

 

Seems like it would become a lot more dangerous...

 

-t

[AirCowPeacock]

No kidding. I'm concerbed about my access to KNO3 and sulfur the most. Gotta lern to make spolettes, with KP. Perc might actually present more issue to get than KNO3, they might try to shoehorn in some other shit we love.

[tangent]

See chapter 2

 

http://www.dfs.virginia.gov/manuals/traceevidence/procedures/222-d100%20trace%20evidence%20procedures%20manual.pdf

 

-t

[Bcorso85]

http://www.justice.g...33751713926.pdf

 

Section F on pages 8 and 9 say it was a low power explosive and contained green hobby fuse.

 

-t

If this is true then we have just witnessed the death of our hobby. They can not make green fuse illegal because its on every class c device imported to America, they will however make them chemicals illegal or controlled. If they don't pass a bill directly, they will amend it somewhere else. I have an employee possessors license and I'm praying yet again to God its my saving grace in some way. I'm sure they were throwing an M-80 like device out the window during the chase. However I refuse to believe they used a low explosive in the marathon. Remember these could still be ammonium chlorate based compositions, not b.p. or perchlorate, simply using bleach and ammonium( I'd not know anything at all about that, but I have heard its very dangerous). Remember....we did read in that very same article about a cell phone call as the possible means of detonation.

[BurritoBandito]

@Mumbles... Why not?

[Mumbles]

GC works by boiling/sublimating the compounds and passing them through a column for separation, followed by various methods of detection. This really doesn't work well on inorganic or ionic solids. You could probably get the sulfur to fly, but that's about it.

[DubaiAmateurRocketry]

It had a huge flame, i suppose it had probably metal powders like magnesium or aluminum ? many some sulfur also ?

[optimus]

Looks like plain blackpowder to me. I think if they had used HE the death toll would've been much higher.

 

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67027000/jpg/_67027647_017750502.jpg

[CrossOut]

GC works by boiling/sublimating the compounds and passing them through a column for separation, followed by various methods of detection. This really doesn't work well on inorganic or ionic solids. You could probably get the sulfur to fly, but that's about it.

 

You could take a solution of the residue and create an absorption or scatter spectrum using spectroscopy then compare the results to the residues left by various other explosives.. there is always residue left over. however contamination can be a major issue in this case.

 

An alternative method can be laser spectrophotometer and vaporize particles (even organic) for analysis. this method has been used in research for particle emissions of large container ships.. The issue with this idea is there is still a TON of uncertainty with this approach as it is a work in progress. i think the spectroscopy is their best bet.

 

Then again a large phone book and a bright light might work just as well if the FBI decides to pursue a cheaper alternatives to finding out.

[BurritoBandito]

Then again a large phone book and a bright light might work just as well if the FBI decides to pursue a cheaper alternatives to finding out.

 

@CrossOut... Don't forget about the waterboard and other "enhanced interrogation techniques".

[Bobosan]

This Boston bombing has been highly publicized for whatever reason. There have been many incidents in this country and elsewhere in the world where attempted attacks have been thwarted and stopped. Surely the authorities in those cases have a good idea of the compounds used with those attempts and would have undertaken measures to eliminate or limit acquisition by the general public by now. Oklahoma City and Ammonium Nitrate as an example.

 

So, today we are fretting about our pyrotechnics hobby due to a very high visibility bombing. Reality is, the threat to amateur pyro has always been there and could have been shutdown many times before. In some ways, these attackers labeled as "terrorists" have won and will continue to win as long as we elect government officials who revel in the limelight of a national tragedy.

 

Let's enjoy our hobby the safest way we can, while we can, and in the best light we can give it. (pun not intended)

[Mumbles]

There are certainly plenty of ways to detect whatever was used. I was just saying that GC wouldn't be effective for BP or pyrodex or most other inorganic based compositions.

 

You could take a solution of the residue and create an absorption or scatter spectrum using spectroscopy then compare the results to the residues left by various other explosives.. there is always residue left over. however contamination can be a major issue in this case.

 

An alternative method can be laser spectrophotometer and vaporize particles (even organic) for analysis. this method has been used in research for particle emissions of large container ships.. The issue with this idea is there is still a TON of uncertainty with this approach as it is a work in progress. i think the spectroscopy is their best bet.

 

Then again a large phone book and a bright light might work just as well if the FBI decides to pursue a cheaper alternatives to finding out.

[tangent]

I've got good news and bad news.

 

The good: what the explosive was has been narrowed down.

The bad: one of the possibilities is the powder from commercially manufactured fireworks.

 

There are some catches here:

Commercial fireworks are illegal in Massachusetts.

It is illegal to purchase smokeless powder for reloading in Massachusetts without a firearms license. Considering that the bombers had 2 pistols and a M4 carbine as well as ammunition and none of them were licensed, it's feasible they got smokeless powder in the same way.

 

The default recipe for an explosive powder is the powder from match heads and sugar.

 

It came out today that the bombers learned to make explosives / bombs from inspire magazine which AQ puts out. The relative section on the explosive follows:

 

http://info.publicintelligence.net/CompleteInspire.pdf

 

There are two types of explosions:

First:

Chemical explosion. This explosion causes great pressure that would kill living beings within a certain

radius. Examples are all the military grade explosives such as TNT, C4 and RDX

 

Second:

Mechanical explosion. This results from the burning of an inflammable material within a confined space.

An example is putting gunpowder inside an iron pipe with a small opening enough only for a fuse. When the

gunpowder is ignited, great pressure results from the gunpowder turning into gases and which result in the

exploding of the iron pipe, turning it into shrapnel flying at high speed

 

1.

Inflammable substance

2.

Decoration lamp (what is normally used for Christmas trees)

3.

Iron pipe

A. Preparation of the inflammable substance

This substance is a mixture of two ingredients:

•

The substance found in heads of matches

•

Sugar

B. How to extract the inflammable substance

 

1.

Strike the head of the match softly with anything (here, we used a tube) to break up the inflammable

substance.

2.

Grind the substance and filter it to obtain a fine powder.

3.

In the picture you will see the fine powder and you add to it sugar equivalent to ¼ its quantity.

4.

Mix the two substances until they become uniform in color.

 

You may substitute the inflammable substance extracted from matches by gunpowder used in cartilages. You may

also use powder from fireworks instead.

Note: You do not have to use one substance. You may mix together the substance from matches, gunpowder and

fireworks but when doing so you need to mix it well.

 

The inflammable

substance used to fill it

was extracted from 80

match heads.

The explosion that

results from this device is a mechanical one. It results from the pressure caused by the gases and therefore

it only works if contained in a high pressure environment. So you may use iron pipes, pressure cookers,

fire extinguishers, or empty propane canisters. The point is that the inflammable substance needs to be

 

contained in a strong container that would allow the pressure to build up and thus cause

a damaging explosion.

However in order to fill for example, a pressurized cooker with the substance from

matches, it may take a lot of matches to do so and therefore you may want to use

gunpowder or the powder from fireworks

 

 

http://www.safekids.org/in-your-area/safety-laws/fireworks-106.html

Fireworks Law (Massachusetts)

Law Summary

In Massachusetts, it is illegal to sell, or keep or offer for sale, or have in your possession, or under your control, or use, or explode, or cause to explode fireworks, including sparklers.

 

http://www.massreloading.com/ma_ammunition_regulations.html

 

MA Ammo and Component Storage Regulations

 

A Massachusetts resident must have a valid firearms license to possess ammunition. There's a twist... Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 140 Section 122 defines ammunition as:

"cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun"

In other words, you must have a firearms license to even possess an ammunition component.

As hard as this is to believe, the Commonwealth also regulates the quantity of ammunition and components that you may store in your home. CMR 527 Section 13.04 sets the limits on ammunition and component storage. Without a special permit, you can store:

• 
  Not more than 10,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition
  
• 
  Not more than 10,000 rounds of centerfire rifle/pistol ammunition
  
• 
  Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition
  
• 
  Not more than 1000 primers
  
• 
  Not more than 16 pounds of smokeless powder
  
• 
  Not more than 2 pounds of black powder
  

CMR 527 Section 13.04 also stipulates that an ammunition storage permit can be obtained from the head of the local fire department. With a storage permit, you can store:

• 
  Up to 30,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition*
  
• 
  Up to 50,000 rounds of centerfire rifle/pistol ammunition*
  
• 
  Up to 50,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition*
  
• 
  Up to 10,000 primers
  
• 
  Not more than 48 pounds of smokeless powder
  
• 
  Not more than 5 pounds of black powder
  

* Total of all ammunition cannot exceed 100,000 rounds

Here's a tip: Before you make a trip to the local fire department to get an ammo storage permit, download a copy of 527 CMR 13 and print pages 6 and 7. It's possible that the fire chief will have never heard of it.

One last thing... CMR 527 Section 13.04 states that "ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use."

 

 

-t

[tangent]

OK, so in summary, all we have to do to prevent another Boston Marathon bombing is some common sense controls on certain items... We need to ban:

 

matches

sugar

smokeless powder

ammo

commercial fireworks

firework fuse

cell phones

kitchen timers

Christmas tree lights

iron pipe

fire extinguishers

pressure cookers

propane tanks

nails

ball bearings

daypacks

 

That's not too much to ask, is it?

 

It's for the CHILDREN!!!!!

 

-t

[dan999ification]

But you can still store 100,000 ?

 

Dan.

[tangent]

This is bad for us...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/boston-bombs-built-fireworks/story?id=19028841#.UXh_h7WG1CM

 

Law enforcement officials told ABC News that it now appears that Tamerlan Tsarnaev began gathering materials for the explosives at least two months ago, when he was spotted at a New Hampshire fireworks store. The store told the FBI that it sold $400-worth of fireworks in February to the accused Boston bomber.

 

The gunpowder in fireworks is often used in bombs.

 

"He just wanted the biggest, loudest stuff we had in the store," said Megan Kearns, the assistant manager of Phantom Fireworks, in an interview with ABC News affiliate WMUR.

 

Kearns said Tsarnaev -- the older of the two brothers now accused in the blast -- bought two large reloadable mortar kits during a two-for-one sale. She said she remembered Tamerlan because of his Russian accent. The store has since confirmed his purchase with store records.

 

"Pretty much the only thing that was remarkable about him was that he had a Russian accent, which we don't get too many people in here who have Russian accents," she said.

 

The amount of gunpowder that could be harvested from the kits -- less than half a pound -- would not have been enough to detonate the Boston bombs, Phantom Fireworks VP William Weimer said.

 

Fireworks have often been used by terrorists to power their bombs, including by the man who tried but failed to detonate a car bomb in Times Square. He bought fireworks from a different Phantom Fireworks store, in Pennsylvania.

 

"Fireworks will give you what you need in terms of blast," said Kevin Barry, retired detective first grade, NYPD Bomb Squad.

 

[VIDEO] at link. Fireworks part is near the beginning. It's long.

 

-t

[guntoteninfadel]

Just when i thought it was safe to come out and play again!

 

I dont really think anything legislative wise will come of this. You can still purchase ammonia nitrate after the OK city ordeal. This is just going to make us perspire a little more right now and hopefully be much more careful in the future.

 

Sad for all those people up there tho, and all thos laws in MA............ going to find someway AROUND MA to get to Maine!

 

GTI