Black Powder Thread #1

[Arthur]

What is the news on binding BP with red gum?

 

I read one report that said 1% red gum makes super fast BP, I see another write up that says 3% red gum BP is no better than 3%dextrin BP.

 

If I can granulate with red gum and get a performance increase then I'd like to try it, But alcohol costs more than water when all that happens id that it evaporates. Is the performance increase worth the cost of the alcohol??

[hondo]

I tried the red gum on my last batch and seem to slow mine down, even pressed it in my press to 3000psi

[Arthur]

That's what concerns me! Post 871 above on this page shows RG/BP being so brissant that it blew a mortar! You and a UK non APC person find that RG SLOWS BP. Is it method, purity, or..... that makes such a difference.

[Swede]

There are so many variables in homemade BP, it is almost impossible to figure out what is going on in these cases. I've used red gum for a while, because I like how it granulates, not because it improves speed. If you want speed, focus on the charcoal, and the milling, pressing, and granulation techniques.

 

It can be fun to try and make super-fast BP, but it isn't always necessary. If it does the job, it's good BP.

 

I did pick up some CMC gum and am interested in trying it out.

[Dr Boom]

I tried doing a search for this method of BP here but didn't come up with anything so I decided to put this up here. This is from our good friends @ Passfire.com and as you can see below it is a cut out from rec.pyrotechnics.

 

 

Posted 4/30/2009 9:56 PM (#67914)

Subject: Easy Made BP Via Blender - From rec.pyrotechnics

 

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Posts: 63

 

I found this on the news groups along time ago.

 

I thought you guys would enjoy this read.

 

----------------------SNIP------------------

 

Although it's not as good as commercially-made powder, you can make very acceptable BP for lifting shells in a blender. However don't use water! All it will do is leach out much of the nitrate as it dries. I've used methyl alcohol mostly, you could use others such as isopropy (must be at least 90% alcohol-10% H2) Alcohol with high water content WILL NOT WORK. The alcohol isn't acting as a solvent, it's only there to liquefy the dry chemicals into a slurry and cool the bearing in the blender jar. The total amount of chemicals and alcohol will depend upon the capacity of your blender jar, and you may need to start smaller and see what fits well without overflowing when it's up to speed. Keep the lid on the jar as much as possible. Start the blender slow then step gradually up to high speed so it doesn't overflow. Also, do not attempt this indoors!

 

Over the 1/2 hour you run the blender at high speed, the mixture will get quite hot from all the mechanical energy being imparted. That's normal. Use a rubber spatula to push any chemicals that collect on the sides of the jar back into the slurry from time to time. After a half hour of milling the slurry, pour it on to pizza pan lined with wax paper and let dry in the sun for 1 hour or so. After dry, lift the wax paper and pour it into a safe container (non glass).

 

It is not as unsafe as it might sound though. As a test we inserted the end of a metal rod heated red-hot into the BP/alcohol slurry and all it did was ignite the alcohol vapor at the top of the jar. It burned quite peacefully for a few seconds and went out. A few little bits of BP that had dried on the side of the jar sputtered and that's about it. The BP won't truly ignite until it is mostly dry.

 

The only time I use water instead of alcohol is in the form of a cooked starch solution. You can add the starch solution instead of alcohol then mill as before. This produces a great slurry for making black match. However in this case you'll not be draining it and will use it in the liquid form. As usual, you will want to wet the cotton string with a KNO3 solution before it passes through the slurry, so that it won't take excess nitrate out of the slurry. This makes a stiff match that holds up better in humid environments than match made with dextrin binder.

 

--------------------------END SNIP--------------------

 

I have only a couple things to add to this as I have been skeptical about using the blender method for years and decided to try it out today. Fantastic results from it! I used the normal 75-15-10 plus denatured alcohol. I ran 200 gram batches at a time with 4 1/2 oz alcohol for 2 hours on low speed with a box fan blowing across the outside of the blender. I used the wax sheets and spooned out the fudge-like slurry and spread it out to dry for 2 hours. I broke up the masses and turned a fan on the broke up chunks over night.

 

 

I screened the large irregular flakes with a 32 mesh tea strainer and ended up with the following:

 

 

The large "cracked-corn" size grains above will be used for lifting shells.

 

 

While this powder which passed the 32 mesh sleeve will be used for inserts, cakes, etc.

 

I know some of us can't get access to a ball mill but I'm quite sure everyone can get a multi-speed kitchen blender and some alcohol. After a brief break down of the cost of making this style BP, all ingredients/time/energy cost- the total per pound came out to be around $1.97 per lb.

 

Its quick just like commerical grade and leaves that pyro-fresh BP scent when burned- Mmm.

 

[pyrogeorge]

Hi,

I have a question about grapevine wood..

Which makes fast Bp,the main trunk or this :

http://www.diversehobbies.com/catalog/images/Grape%20vine%20wood.jpg

Edited May 21, 2009 by pyrogeorge

[TheSidewinder]

Hard to say for sure, without testing, but *generally* it's the main trunk that you'll want to use for BP.

 

From what I understand, the "bark" on the woods we use to make charcoal is considered undesirable for use in BP (due to its cellular structure, I think, but not at all sure).

 

If it's a 4-inch diameter log, the bark percentage compared to the total wood is very small, and usually insignificant.

 

But with small stems, that percentage is much higher and that might affect the performance of the BP. Can't be sure without testing.

 

I've heard of grapevine being used and, if I remember right, it works very well.

 

 

I see you're Greek.

 

If you have access to Olive wood, someone else here from Greece (or very nearby) tested it and reported that it made excellent BP.

 

Olive wood is something that we just don't get here in the US, in any appreciable quantity, so it was interesting to hear about it.

[pyrogeorge]

i tested an ammount of olive wood BP,but in powder not granules,and it isn't as fast as grapevine.

 

So I will make some batches to test it when i make the pulley in my ball mill,also i will make a tutorial with different woods (olive-grapevine,powder and granulated) to show you the difference.

 

thanks for your reply

[Richtee]

Hi,

I have a question about grapevine wood..

Which makes fast Bp,the main trunk or this :

 

Kinda OT, but- I have never been able to get any grapewood, but I hear it is also EXCELLENT wood for smoking meats :{)

[marks265]

Hi,

I have a question about grapevine wood..

Which makes fast Bp,the main trunk or this :

http://www.diversehobbies.com/catalog/images/Grape%20vine%20wood.jpg

 

I have tried different aspects of grape vine. My personal experience is if you want fast BP than I would suggest looking at a different wood all together. Grape vine was just noticably much slower than other woods. Stripping the bark off dried vine was no fun either . Try to find a softer wood you may have better luck If faster BP is what you are after.

[dagabu]

aquaman, please don't give advice when you know absolutly nothing about what you are talking about. Fe2O3 is a catalyst for whistle. It catalyzes the decomposition of perchlorate as do many other transition metal oxides. There arn't really any catalysts for BP. If it's not burning fast enough or "strong" enough for your purposes, you're not making it right. Granulating does increase speed. The fastest and therefore strongest stuff will be the fines. Granulate it through a window screen. After it dries, rescreen it. Save everything that sits on the screen, and everything that falls through. You want to put the stuff that falls through the screen in a shallow baking pan or something. Sliding it around the floor and you will get a gradient of sizes. Keep whatever you want. I would suggest keeping all the stuff you can see the individual particles of. If a small pile doesn't burn with a poof, you have shitty BP.

 

Oh I dont know about a true catalyst but Red Gum sure makes for better BP

[qwezxc12]

Oh I dont know about a true catalyst but Red Gum sure makes for better BP

 

The addition of Red Gum doesn't speed up BP, it's the use of a different solvent to dampen the meal. Ned's theory is that when water is used to dampen meal, some of the superfine milled KNO₃ get dissolved and re-crystallized into larger crystals throughout the BP, slowing down it's combustion speed. This seems to apply BP that is dampened with a larger % of water and screened/riced. I think 'traditional' pressed and corned BP wouldn't be affected, as a very small % of water is used to dampen the meal powder.

 

FWIW, NC lacquer bound BP is even faster, because the NC supplies it's own O₂.

 

Ned's Skylighter Article

Edited July 21, 2009 by qwezxc12

[dagabu]

The addition of Red Gum doesn't speed up BP, it's the use of a different solvent to dampen the meal. Ned's theory is that when water is used to dampen meal, some of the superfine milled KNO₃ get dissolved and re-crystallized into larger crystals throughout the BP, slowing down it's combustion speed. This seems to apply BP that is dampened with a larger % of water and screened/riced. I think 'traditional' pressed and corned BP wouldn't be affected, as a very small % of water is used to dampen the meal powder.

 

FWIW, NC lacquer bound BP is even faster, because the NC supplies it's own O₂.

 

Ned's Skylighter Article

 

In what amount would you use thew NC lacquer? 1%? 10%?

[qwezxc12]

In what amount would you use thew NC lacquer? 1%? 10%?

 

Both Gene Yurek and Ned Gorski have had lots to say on the subject - Gene suggests 1% solids, but I suppose you could up to to 2-3% for harder grains without affecting the burn speed:

 

"As an alternative, granulate binding with NC lacquer, leaving 1% NC solids in the dried granulate. Easy way to do this. Simply weigh out 10% of your meal weight in 10% NC solution. 10% of 10% is 1% so you're good to go. Top off with more acetone if you need to thin the dough a bit more (probably will). This will give you a slight speed edge over red-gum granulated..."

[pyrogeorge]

Lift powder test with my black powder.20# granulated and 9# granulated BP.

 

[poisonkiller]

I don't know, if this is the right topic for my question, but here it goes...

I made some black match today, but it's too fast, burns like 5cm per second. My BP shouldn't have good quality, since I ball milled it for only 2 hours. Any ideas on how to slow it down?

[pyrogeorge]

What charcoal did you use?

[poisonkiller]

What charcoal did you use?

No idea, I bought it from store as barbecue charcoal. But it's probably some hardwood.

[pyrogeorge]

that's why..if you want fast BP you must use charcoal from willow-grapevine-balsa and other soft woods.

i use grapevine charcoal,you can see above the video of my granulated black powder.

[Mario1]

Does willow make nice sparks for fountains?

[dagabu]

I don't know, if this is the right topic for my question, but here it goes...

I made some black match today, but it's too fast, burns like 5cm per second. My BP shouldn't have good quality, since I ball milled it for only 2 hours. Any ideas on how to slow it down?

 

No, he wants to SLOWWWWWW it down some. I find that adding charcoal works well as does baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Both have drawbacks but my black match also burns pretty fast but I like that.

 

What are you using it for?

[poisonkiller]

What are you using it for?

What do you mean? I use it to light stuff.

[Mumbles]

I wouldn't worry about it. You really shouldn't be using BM to light anything that requires a reliable delay. I always expect it to go off at any moment. Even slower blackmatch can jump ahead, and could potentially cause issues burning through holes.

[firetech]

Just go to some quality pyro site and buy some chinese visco. It's worth it.

[TheEskimo]

Hiya!!

Anyone else have issues with clumping with BP in one end of the mill? Every time I make BP, it consolidates into a huge, solid lump at one end of the mill after an hour or so. I have to turn off the machine, and whack at the end until the clump falls off. I then roll the mill to ensure that the clump is broken up. I have noticed that this really became a problem after I switched form white pine to paulownia BP, which by the way, creates amazing BP. IS there a way to stop this from happening?