Bigger brighter longer lasting charcoal based sparks

[oldguy]

Was granulating some BP.

While doing so the thought struck me that charcoal is a relatively inexpensive readily available light weight slow flammable fuel, has a high porosity and is relatively absorbent.

 

Then I thought to myself, why not utilize those pyrotechnically advantageous charcoal characteristics to try to make bigger brighter longer lasting charcoal based sparks.

 

I have a huge supply of highly reactive charcoal & a clean means via a crude looking shaker table I built to screen out large amounts of charcoal particles to various mesh sizes. Nested screens are covered with a large plastic bag & secured at the bottom with a bunge cord.

 

My thought is this. Why not use an applicable solvent (?) to make a solution, including a mild binder(?), an applicable oxidizer(?), possibly add a tiny bit of very fine mesh metallic fuel(?), mix in a considerable amount of (10, 20 or 30 mesh, for instance) charcoal . Stir the batch until it is homogeneous, let it air dry somewhat (still slightly moist, but somewhat crumbly), then granulate the mixture through an applicable sized screen. Then allow those particles to air dry completely.

 

It would seem to me with some experimentation, with differing mixture components one could come up with a few different inexpensive bigger brighter longer lasting charcoal based spark effects. For that matter, some charcoal based particles could be used as star rolling seeds. Chrysanthemum‘s, Falls, Willow, Tiger Tail & many other Stars contain a lot of Charcoal anyway. Why not base long lasting sparks or Charcoal based Stars on & within a particle of charcoal?

 

Before I go off half cocked experimenting. I thought I would post this, to gleam any constructive thoughts, suggestions or advice anyone knowledgeable has to offer.

Edited March 18, 2012 by oldguy

[warthog]

I would think the metals would pollute the charcoal effect. Mesh size already can prolong spark duration to the point that you can have a lot of them bouncing on the ground from even the highest shooting fountains so duration is good enough already IMO. I like the unpolluted color charcoal sparks have over the various metals. 80 mesh charcoal can give you some serious duration to you sparks, try some.

My opinion though is that it will not be worth the trouble of making the compositions you are proposing here. What you are speaking of is essentially granulating a basic star comp so you can mix those granules into a different comp which may work well for comets, (matrix comets are like this already) but not so well for a regular star in a shell.

Is it worth it? I think that any idea a person has is worth pursuing as long as it is really dumb and this one doesn't strike me that way at all.

[oldguy]

Fountains are used at ground level, so any long lasting spark might & often do a round trip. On the other hand, stars or large sparks ignited from high elevation have a considerable time to burn out, before reaching terra firma.

 

I only suggested the possibility of adding metal fuel. The right type Al or Ti might add a somewhat white glitter like effect, even if they did wash out the initial charcoal fire dust effect.

 

Adding one of the coppers might add a bluish effect. Adding barium nitrate would add an off white effect, strontium nitrate would add a red effect, etc, etc, etc.

I think it would be extremely cool to see a diverse shower of red, white & blue sparks or micro-stars trailing out of a rocket or comet for instance.

 

Dextrin is water soluble, inexpensive, readily available, easy to use and work with, and holds many compositions together well after drying. What I am getting at is an inexpensive, quick & very easy way to create a variety of long lasting sparks, micro-stars or whatever. Which after ignition may create one initial effect or another that possibly trails off as-or into a charcoal fire dust effect as they burn out.

 

At least to me, with a water soluble or alcohol/water soluble binder, mixing a simple inexpensive comp into some larger mesh charcoal as a carrier, granulating the batch & drying the results. Without cutting, pumping or rolling a comp would be an easy way to make large amounts quickly, at very low cost.

 

Hell, off to the shop & comp mixing making table.

Edited March 18, 2012 by oldguy

[warthog]

I agree about the RW&B microstars flowing off of a comet, that was why I mentioned Matrix Comets. You can be sure I will be making some manner of matrix comets as I begin my cometeering here when the pumps arrive after Easter. What you are doing is making small stars. If you take charcoal and the rest of what you propose and a binder so it can be granulated, it is no different than making soy, Mouse Turd stars. The difference is the comp, nothing more. Mouse turds are granulated parlon stars essentially, you are going to granulate a charcoal based comp.

As for the metal, you asked and I gave my opinion of what it would do, nothing more.

You keep saying you are mixing it ONTO the charcoal and I am not seeing how this will work, the charcoal is certainly going to absorb some of what it will be mixed with but unless you are then separating the charcoal off of the mix and using only it as the spark maker, then you are making microstars. Which is very cool and something I had not thought of as a way to make them. My way is far more labor intense. So I am certsainly going to give this a try myself and see how it goes.

I am just trying to help you see what you are actually doing here. Unless you really are going to be simply soaking the charcoal then using only it, then it may be something brand new here and I am looking forward to seeing it either way it winds up.

[oldguy]

LOL, please remember, I am nearly an utter pyrotechnic novice. So, half the time I myself don't know exactly what I am doing, other than just tinkering around.

 

I also have on hand one hell of a supply of very reactive charcoal. Plus a means to easily & cleanly screen big loads of it to about any mesh size I want.

 

LOL, I have never even heard of mouse turd stars, until just now.

 

I just did a quick search here & on google & found some info on them.

 

Examples:

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7024-turd-stars/

 

http://www.creagan.net/fireworks/mouseturds.html

 

Cool…..Okay… there already is such a thing.

 

The only difference being they are comps granulated through a big screen, without a charcoal core.

 

Even so, I'm going to keep tinkering with about the same thing & use a charcoal core.

 

Just to see what happens. Besides that I just made a few batchs & have them drying now.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

But, then again just soaking some larger mesh charcoal in solution with an oxidizer, then screening the charcoal out & drying it.

Is also interesting to me, because I would like to see how that charcoal reacts.

 

2nd EDIT TO ADD:

I enjoy "tinkering".

Just for giggles, I also intend to coat some polystyrene microballs with some hot BP, to see how it reacts.

　

Edited March 18, 2012 by oldguy

[warthog]

I love to try new things too, or tinker if that is how you want to put it.

 

As for relative newness to the hobby, I started last March so I am still super new as well.

I am full of questions among other things. LOL

 

I make fountains most and so I make a fair number of very small stars, or microstars. This summer I am also going to use those microstars in my new effort of making comets.

 

Usually I just roll out a really think patty and cut them. I have also squeezed them out of a cake decorating bag onto a sheet of non-stick foil then either cut them up into small sections or let it dry and break it into small bits with a dowel or whatever I have on hand. I just got myself a very small star pump off of califoniapyro so I can give pumping a few a try, I am working on a very small star plate as well, making it out of plastic and some of the brass rods I usually use to pin wood handles (scales) onto knife handles which is my other hobby.

 

So see, we both tinker.

Edited March 18, 2012 by warthog

[WSM]

Was granulating some BP.

While doing so the thought struck me that charcoal is a relatively inexpensive readily available light weight slow flammable fuel, has a high porosity and is relatively absorbent.

Then I thought to myself, why not utilize those pyrotechnically advantageous charcoal characteristics to try to make bigger brighter longer lasting charcoal based sparks.

I have a huge supply of highly reactive charcoal & a clean means via a crude looking shaker table I built to screen out large amounts of charcoal particles to various mesh sizes. Nested screens are covered with a large plastic bag & secured at the bottom with a bunge cord.

My thought is this. Why not use an applicable solvent (?) to make a solution, including a mild binder(?), an applicable oxidizer(?), possibly add a tiny bit of very fine mesh metallic fuel(?), mix in a considerable amount of (10, 20 or 30 mesh, for instance) charcoal . Stir the batch until it is homogeneous, let it air dry somewhat (still slightly moist, but somewhat crumbly), then granulate the mixture through an applicable sized screen. Then allow those particles to air dry completely.

It would seem to me with some experimentation, with differing mixture components one could come up with a few different inexpensive bigger brighter longer lasting charcoal based spark effects. For that matter, some charcoal based particles could be used as star rolling seeds. Chrysanthemum's, Falls, Willow, Tiger Tail & many other Stars contain a lot of Charcoal anyway. Why not base long lasting sparks or Charcoal based Stars on & within a particle of charcoal?

Before I go off half cocked experimenting. I thought I would post this, to gleam any constructive thoughts, suggestions or advice anyone knowledgeable has to offer.

 

Hi oldguy,

 

Have you thought of adding lampblack instead of metals? If you have a source for oil-free lampblack try adding it to your mix of granulated charcoal, oxidizer and dextrin and see if the granulated mixture doesn't burn brighter and longer. I recall lampblack stars having a brighter and longer lasting fire dust than charcoal alone, maybe this will work for you.

 

WSM

[warthog]

Hmmm. I never used lampblack in a star composition, only in flowerpots. It makes some pretty sparks in those for sure.

I think I am going to ned more lampblack.. WSM, have any specific formulae you'd suggest?

[oldguy]

I have no idea how well these will function.

Will make some sort of gerb & see what happens.

 

 

 

　

 

 

[oldguy]

Hi oldguy,

Have you thought of adding lampblack instead of metals? If you have a source for oil-free lampblack try adding it to your mix of granulated charcoal, oxidizer and dextrin and see if the granulated mixture doesn't burn brighter and longer. I recall lampblack stars having a brighter and longer lasting fire dust than charcoal alone, maybe this will work for you.

WSM

 

Never used lampblack for anything.

But, may now.

[warthog]

Well, I am sure looking forward to the results now. Press up some 2-3 inch matrix comets with those mixed into them now. Maybe pick some kind of subtle streamer type comp for the main body...

[oldguy]

Comets are still beyond me right now.

I have some massively thick walled HDPE pipe to build mortars with.

Trouble is the smallest size is 6 inch ID.

That’s a bit big for a beginner to be shooting aloft on his first go around.

 

 

[Mumbles]

I never thought I'd see the day when you'd say a project is too big.

 

You don't need a lot of lampblack to make a difference. I quite like it and use it in my spider stars. Below are two threads from rec.pyrotechnics with a spider star formula from Mike Swisher. They contain the same formula with slight variations, specifically in the amount of lampblack used. The amount is so low that you don't have all of the problems lampblack can manifest, while still getting some benefits.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/765b7bf335be3cd3/5f7c2c174d14ed3a?hl=en&q=mike+swisher+spider+web+lampblack#5f7c2c174d14ed3a

 

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/a960c89228f22afa/c5908a0de01b49ba?hl=en&q=mike+swisher+spider+web+lampblack#c5908a0de01b49ba

[oldguy]

I never thought I'd see the day when you'd say a project is too big.

 

Thanks for the links.

 

LOL……….

 

Sometimes novice ignorance is bliss.

I didn't realize how big the ball mill I built was, until after I was well along in building it.

Nor did I realize10 & 12 inch PVC BM jars that are optimal for my mill size, were so big.

Nor did I realize it was going to cost me more than the BM & jars combined for optimal grinding media to fill the jars.

 

As for the big charcoal retort I built. I knew it was big.

But, the design called for 55G outer upper & lower steel drums, so it had to be that big.

Given that the triple drum charcoal retort thread here has near 4000 view hits in not so long a time.

It must be drawing a wide spectrum of interest outside this forum alone.

 

Other than a small star gun I built, I am just now setting the stage for getting effects aloft.

But, I have a long way to go, before that gets done.

Building, pasting & fusing shells not only requires the know-how & technical expertise.

From what I have seen, there is a significant amount of artistry involved.

Not even mentioning the type, quality & amount of lift to use.

 

All of which comes from experience, I don't have yet.

Once I have a mortar or 2 built this spring.

Plan is to lift crude dummy shells to gain familiarity with what it takes to get them to an optimal height.

Then I will get real serious building & lifting live ones.

 

But for right now, admittedly, it's beyond me.

God, health & longevity willing, I will get there.

Can anyone point out any good tutorials on building simple shells?

Edited March 19, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

Ignore, hit the post button twice. Edited March 19, 2012 by oldguy

[JFeve81]

Can anyone point out any good tutorials on building simple shells?

 

 

Here's a link to a vid from 50AE that shows how to make 2" cylinder shells. (I loosely followed it in making my first cylinder shell.)

http://www.amateurpy...cylinder-shell/

 

 

Here's a link to several vids from 50AE as well that shows how to make 3" paper ball shells.

http://www.amateurpy...per-ball-shell/

 

 

Hope these help.

[dan999ification]

50's work is good, i learned pasting 3 strip [which i dont use now/has evolved] and small cans one of the most complete sources ive found.

come on OG, no flammable or energetic material in GLASS containers! goes without saying i once tested some ruby red on a borosilicate glass ashtryay......well pieces went flying

the charcoal core idea is nice but i see some problems in finding a suitable use as cores, rolling onto them will be as difficult as small seeds or worse, if they are a core in a charcoal star i can see them falling [not to the ground] causing a brief willow like effect that could possibly ruin some shells unless they are willows,it can also drift from the main effect if there is wind, i make a similar effect with c6/mgal cores that "drop" the mgal and charcoal after the crysanthemum has formed, i like it.

one good use for a retarded charcoal is in the rocket tails having longer denser bushier tails is all good if you like that sort of thing.

 

dan.

[dagabu]

Can anyone point out any good tutorials on building simple shells?

 

OG, shoot me an email, I have some tutorial information that will help you with cylinders and ball shells.

 

-dag

[WSM]

Hmmm. I never used lampblack in a star composition, only in flowerpots. It makes some pretty sparks in those for sure.

I think I am going to ned more lampblack.. WSM, have any specific formulae you'd suggest?

 

Mumbles to the rescue (see his post above! ). Thanks, Mumbles.

 

WSM

[warthog]

For the record OG, comets are a lot easier than Ball shells or any other shells to shoot. All a comet amounts to is a really big star shot out of the gun all by itself. Making a shell is a lot more complicated than that with timing, burst, pasting, of course filling it with the stars you have to make, making sure the stars ignite and making sure that the whole thing only ignites when you want it to and not on take off....

 

A comet is a load it up and blast it skyward thing in comparison...

[busspuppy]

For the turds in the video how did you do it? I am kinda confused, you talk about several diffrent methods so I am not sure which one you used. Did you mix charcoal with strontium, barium, and copper prospectivelt then granulated. (Not all coloring agents at same time). From your first post I got the impression you were wanting to wet the charcoal to a vet slurrly and dry to add stuff to be mixed in the charcoal almost like one would think of a chemical compound. I am still confused. I am not sure how well that would work. Looking for to seeing a video of those turds to see how they work. Planning on something soon?