WSM Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 The fact that CuSO4 is soluble is where it causes trouble. Copper is generally considered a relatively inert metal, but along with that, it's salts are relatively corrosive and reactive, and this is really made much worse by the fact that it's soluble. It will react with all metals we use in pyro to form copper metal, and a salt of Aluminum, Magnesium, Zinc, and Iron. Additionally it can react with several salts which may ruin their purpose, such as certain carbonates, nitrates (Ba and Sr, maybe K). This is on top of the fact that it carries with it quite a bit of water. I bet it could be made to work, it just carries with it several challenging properties. If I were going to go about it, I'd use anyhydrous CuSO4, and a parlon bound system. Just for good measure, I'd try to use dry acetone. Hi Mumbles, Very good points. I wonder if a bit of stability to the CuSO4-5H2O would be achieved if NH3OH were brought into the picture (copper ammonium sulfate? tetraamine copper sulfate? Not sure)? It may be less or more soluble than the CuSO4-5H2O alone. Still, I'd be concerned about incompatibilities and moisture. Just a couple thoughts... WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 That might work, at least to prevent as much absorption of water. I don't know how filling up all of the ligand positions with ammonia would affect reactivity. Even the tetramine salt is hygroscopic, absorbing one water molecule per copper unit. I've never worked with it in the solid state, but I know that the compound is soluble in ammonia solution at the very least, so probably water too. It's a beautiful colored solution though. Midnight blue/purple. I have some things I want to try with copper amine complexes. They're on my long list of experiments to do. Adding ammonia can increase solubility in other solvents, IE ethanol and DCM. I have a feeling that it would make a beautiful blue fireball for lampares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeAdFX Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) That might work, at least to prevent as much absorption of water. I don't know how filling up all of the ligand positions with ammonia would affect reactivity. Even the tetramine salt is hygroscopic, absorbing one water molecule per copper unit. I've never worked with it in the solid state, but I know that the compound is soluble in ammonia solution at the very least, so probably water too. It's a beautiful colored solution though. Midnight blue/purple. I have some things I want to try with copper amine complexes. They're on my long list of experiments to do. Adding ammonia can increase solubility in other solvents, IE ethanol and DCM. I have a feeling that it would make a beautiful blue fireball for lampares. One could also try making basic copper sulfate. Its chemical formula is Cu4(OH)6 SO4. It is insoluble in water however the large amounts of OH groups are probably detrimental to usefulness in pyrotechnics. However it would be quiet useful in any sort of formula using NH4ClO4, KClO3, Mg, Al, etc. I wonder if one could toss this basic copper sulfate into a warm to hot solution of benzoic acid to produce copper benzoate? As the the Cu(OH)2 base part is attacked copper sulfate is produced which then dissolves into the water allowing more Cu(OH)2 to be attacked... Wishful thinking but it is worth a try. Also if the solution turns blue and the insoluble crystals dissolve then the rxn works so this should be easily verifiable or not. According to Thomas Edison (light bulb guy) http://www.google.com/patents?id=qqtkAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=falseBasic CuSO4 can be prepared by mixing Copper metal, Cuprous Chloride (catalyst), and air inside of a solution of Cupric sulfate. Copper's oxidization states as listed are 0, 1, and 2 respectively. Another production method is listed here http://www.google.com/patents?id=FuRvAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=falseThe disadvantage to this is that Sodium compounds are used. Im pretty certain Potassium can be subbed in w/o to much trouble. I will try to make some Basic copper sulfate according to Thomas Edison but not immediately as I don't have any copper powder. For those in need of copper powder but can't find any try this... http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?fid=2&tid=2654&action=printable Edited November 6, 2010 by DeAdFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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