Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate

[Ventsi]

So I decided that instead of hijacking another thread, I'd make a new one.

 

This stuff is just so interesting, I keep finding more and more uses for it everyday. Pyro and average coolness...

 

I bought myself some from Seattle Pottery so I can be able to make Copper Benzoate and Salyillicate. But right now I need a few more chemicals to perform the synthesis so I decided to grow some crystals.

 

But I'm having a bit of struggle. Every time I super-saturate the solution and let it cool, a small forest of crystals comes aboard in the jar. Now I have had pointed out to me that impurities and solids will act as "seed crystals" . One thin I noticed when I took a look at the jar was that there were a few crystals "floating" on top of the skin of the water. This makes me think that even though I cover the jar 24/7 there is still something floating atop that makes crystals form, then they fall to the bottom. Or just because this stuff is pottery grade and even filtering multiple times with this crap coming out its till too dirty to use.

 

Also, Is there a problem with me not using distilled water? I'm sure it wouldn't hurt but...

 

Also, is there a problem with my seeds crystals being so big? I was going to use tiny ones made the way they were supposed to, the bigger ones were juste chipped off the "forest".

 

Here's some pics:

Forest

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080680.jpg

Seed crystals

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080702.jpg

Impurities from 250grams.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080705.jpg

[Mumbles]

Use distilled water from now on. It is going to make the impurities worse, or might even be causing all of them. All of the carbonate and hydroxide from the water (which will be rather plentiful) will precipitate as you try to dissolve it.

 

You may want to take a look at Swede's method in the perchlorate thread about how he prepares saturated KCl solution by allowing a saturated layer to cool, and decanting off the clear liquid. This will probably be the best method you have to get saturated clean solutions.

[Ventsi]

Wait Mumbles, to grow the crystals do I need a SATURATED or A SUPERSATURATED solution? So far everyone is telling me to use a supersaturated soln. But making and using a saturated one would be way easier. And I did just grab some distilled H2O so I'm good.

[Mumbles]

I'm not sure if you know what supersaturated means, but just in case I'll clarify. It is a thermodynamically unstable state where more solute than theoretically possible under normal conditions is dissolved. Think carbonated beverages. They are super saturated with CO2 by pressure. Honey and syrup may also be a good examples, and the organic stuff can crystalize upon standing from lack of stabilizers.

 

Any sort of stimulus can cause crystalization. A seed crystal or scratches in the glass are more than enough. It happens very rapidly, and wont result in the crystals you desire. I said it before, slow and steady. It is going to take weeks to grow these crystals by slow evaporation, I don't know how you expect to do that with super saturated solutions and seed crystals.

[swervedriver]

Maybe save some powder and try some blue strobes instead -

 

Magnesium, 60 mesh (treated with potassium bichromate).....23

Ammonium perchlorate..............................60

Copper sulfate....................................17

Potassium dichromate (as a stabilizer)............+5%

 

I edited to add the authors notes, I've not tried it and it contains Mg so-

 

Preparation: Add 25 parts 10% nitrocellulose solution in acetone to 100 parts of the composition, and make cut stars. Roll these stars in "priming composition #8", using the same NC paste until stars are round. Add a final layer of black powder in NC paste to ensure ignition.

Edited January 13, 2010 by swervedriver

[Swede]

Wait Mumbles, to grow the crystals do I need a SATURATED or A SUPERSATURATED solution? So far everyone is telling me to use a supersaturated soln. But making and using a saturated one would be way easier. And I did just grab some distilled H2O so I'm good.

 

I think what he is saying is to start with a saturated, exceptionally clean and pure solution, then allow evaporation to form the jumbo crystals. Did you ever make rock candy as a kid? It took days or even weeks. The water slooowly evaporates, and the copper sulfate likewise slowly crystallizes. IIRC the idea is to place the rig in a quiet, very still environment. Even jostling is to be avoided.

 

I'd cover the jar with a breathable fabric like maybe a panty hose section to keep airborne dusts and contaminants out.

 

And that is the limit of my knowledge of growing xtals!

[Ventsi]

Been a little over a month and I must say I'm pretty freaking proud!

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1090020.jpg

 

[dagabu]

Thats fantastic!

 

Hmmm, why do I really want to lick it?

[scarbelly]

DAMN! That is one SEXY crystal! Dave, I'm completely with you, it looks freaking delicious

[TheSidewinder]

Nice crystal!!

[Ventsi]

Thanks fellas, my mom-"What is this? Can I eat it?".

 

I plan on growing it even more but the solution got contaminated and I had to take it out so it doesn't get messed up, I might just buy a few more pounds of CuSO4 and try to get it to the size of a fist. Of course that would take at least a year...

[xetap]

Been a little over a month and I must say I'm pretty freaking proud!

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1090020.jpg

You should submit that photo to the gallery, if you haven't already.

 

Am I expecting to get a package, or no. I seem to have lost my PM's to see what the last decision of yours was.

[TheSidewinder]

*NO ONE* should have lost any PM's.

 

True, the old ones can't be replied to any more because of the system changes, but they should still all BE there. Any folder structure was lost, so they're all in one big list.

 

A Red X means it was one sent by someone *to* you, or one *you* sent that the *recipient* deleted their copy of, neither of which type you can reply to, but they should still *be* there.

 

Give us more details, please, and post about it in the:

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/forum/37-using-the-new-features-of-apc/

 

section.

[Ventsi]

SW, the PM was on another forum, so no need to worry.

[Twotails]

That's realy cool, It reminds me of the Alum crystal i once grew. seeing your's makes me remember just how fun, and rewarding patience realy is.

 

Good work, cant wait to see it in a year from now

[TheSidewinder]

SW, the PM was on another forum, so no need to worry.

 

Oh, well yeah, that does rather make a difference, lol.

[xetap]

Actually, I had lost them here, I thought. After re reading the directions (what a concept!), I realized that all I need do is click on my screen name (same as UKPyro) and- voila! There they are!

 

BTW, damn good job on the revamp, Sidewinder. Thank you for your hard work, and the others who helped, too..

[TheSidewinder]

Oh, we're FAR from done, lol.

 

But thank you.

[baran420]

Ventsi you should be proud. Did this crystal grow from a seed on the bottom of your chamber or did you suspend it somehow?

 

Cheers,

Anton

 

 

[gordohigh]

I believe for the rock candy, we used to hang strings in the jar and the rocks would grow up the length of the strings.

 

It would probably work for this too. Pretty nice crystal though, very exotic looking but yet so poisionous.

[Ventsi]

Ventsi you should be proud. Did this crystal grow from a seed on the bottom of your chamber or did you suspend it somehow?

 

Cheers,

Anton

 

 

 

 

 

From a string, there is actually a small ugly blob on the other side I'm trying to find how to get rid of. I did not want to risk another small crystal forming on the bottom from an impurity and ruining the main crystal.

 

 

[Twotails]

well, you could try fileing it down with a nail file... although you may still get cristal growth in that spot.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Thanks fellas, my mom-"What is this? Can I eat it?".

 

 

You didn´t give it to her, did you?

 

I´ve recently re-read the things Shimizu´s FAST says about CuSO₄.5H₂O; it´s remarkable that he rates it almost as good as Paris green as a color producing agent. On the other hand, he doesn´t give a single formula with it, at least in this book. Taking the acidic (?) nature of this sulphate into account, what would such formulas be based on? What would they look like? Did someone have good results in blue formulas?

[Bonny]

You didn´t give it to her, did you?

 

I´ve recently re-read the things Shimizu´s FAST says about CuSO₄.5H₂O; it´s remarkable that he rates it almost as good as Paris green as a color producing agent. On the other hand, he doesn´t give a single formula with it, at least in this book. Taking the acidic (?) nature of this sulphate into account, what would such formulas be based on? What would they look like? Did someone have good results in blue formulas?

 

I remember a few years ago trying an (OLD) formula that used KClO3/CuSO4/sugar. I don't remember the binder...shellac maybe? The blue was nice IIRC correctly, but the stars turned to mushy blobs when "drying", so into the fire they went.

[Mumbles]

The fact that CuSO4 is soluble is where it causes trouble. Copper is generally considered a relatively inert metal, but along with that, it's salts are relatively corrosive and reactive, and this is really made much worse by the fact that it's soluble. It will react with all metals we use in pyro to form copper metal, and a salt of Aluminum, Magnesium, Zinc, and Iron. Additionally it can react with several salts which may ruin their purpose, such as certain carbonates, nitrates (Ba and Sr, maybe K). This is on top of the fact that it carries with it quite a bit of water.

 

I bet it could be made to work, it just carries with it several challenging properties. If I were going to go about it, I'd use anyhydrous CuSO4, and a parlon bound system. Just for good measure, I'd try to use dry acetone.