Organic Stars

[firetech]

Mumbles, what size screen are you using to mix the chems?

[Mumbles]

40 to mix usually. I screen through a 60 mesh to remove clumps though.

[lodcomm]

Most don't mill them at all. I just screen them. It will remove the clumps, which usually arn't RG anyway.

 

Did you test the star comp as a loose pile, or bound stars? Also was it tested close up or out of a star gun? These two things both make a difference.

 

I tested it a few ways. 1st in a loose pile (which for all my compositions gives the "weakest" colours as a rule), but it is a quick way to see if you have even come close to the target colour.

2nd in a "lance" like spiral of light kraft paper lightly rammed, lit with a few strands of blackmatch. Viewed from across the yard (approximately 150' away)

3rd The bound (rolled) stars from my star gun.

 

There was a definite blue hue, the best colour emmision being from the rolled star (which is almost always the case)... but overall the Shimizu #2 was a very "whiteish" light blue.

 

I will have a look at the other organic formulas posted here and let you all know how I progress.

 

thanks again

 

-t

[firetech]

Shimizu's green turned out white with a hint of green...Gonna try Hardt #4

Any hints, tips & suggestions?

[Seymour]

The Shimizu green you refer to, is it the one on page 216 of FAST edition 4?

 

Green star:

47.2% Potassium perchlorate

28.3% Barium nitrate

14.2% Accroides resin

4.7% Parlon

5.6% SGRS

 

If it is, your experience matches mine. It was the first green I had ever made, and I chose it largely on it's low parlon content, because at the time I only had 30g of the chlorinated rubber. Adding higher parlon would give the Barium nitrate enough chlorine, but would cool it to a temperature where barium nitrate is a lousy emitter. To be honest I doubt the original composition, with the low parlon content was ever hot enough.

 

My advice is, if you are going to stick to a barium nitrate green, you need a metal fuel in there to get it hot enough, and more parlon too.

 

If you want to use Barium chlorate OR Ammonium perchlorate, an organic green will be able to give a green enough flame to match any Barium nitrate/MgAl/Parlon composition in saturation.

 

As for Hardt 4, I've never tried it, but it looks no more promising than Shimizu.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Seymour

[skyisthelimitinc]

This is a organic blue that looks good and is easy to make, found it on pyrozmuro´s YT channel

dont know who the origin author is but here it is:

 

62 Potassium perchlorate

10 hexamine

13 copper (II) oxide

15 parlon

 

i bind it with NC, this test star was very small, about 4mmx4mm

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifTBlR__w2c

 

i primed it with meal

65 kno3

15 charcoal (oak)

10 sulphur

10 silicon

 

sorry for the replica gun show at the video´s beginning

 

skyisthelimitinc

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Hardt mentions that CuO needs a good amount of chlorine to produce a decent blue color. For me formulas with a good deal of parlon have indeed proven better than others...

 

Concerning green stars (without barium chlorate), the ones containing metal fuels are certainly a better choice than those with plain barium nitrate e.g. Shimizu´s.

[Seymour]

The parlon applies to the greens too. Without chlorine barium emits a nice, bright white. Without enough chlorine this nice bright white has a very bad influence on that green you wanted.

 

 

With Ammonium perchlorate too, not just Barium chlorate, you can easily get a good organic green...

[Ventsi]

Question here:

 

I want a good chlorate red and seeing most of them DON'T have a chlorine donor I'm thinking of trying Shimizu Red hoping for a brighter deeper color.

 

Potassium perchlorate 64

Strontium carbonate 12

Red gum 13

Charcoal (lampblack) 2

PVC 1

Dextrin 5

 

Could I just bind this with the Red Gum? Or is there some advantage in keeping it powdered in the composition?

Also for a prime I've heard sulfurless BP makes organic reds turn into a salmon color, Is this true or just another rumor?

[Seymour]

I have never tried that red, or a similar composition that I see used often:

 

Lancaster red #2

 

70% Potassium perchlorate.

15 Strontium carbonate

9 Red Gum

4 Dextrin

2 Charcoal

 

I wonder why they are so popular, a chlorine donor WILL improve the colour (though it will possibly reduce the flame). To compensate for this, a small quantity of a fine metal would get the burn rate and flame size up, while giving a slghtly brighter, more saturated red.

 

As I have said, I have not tried that red. However, it looks to me, like a formula that would be ideal only for people who have not got parlon. If someone who has tried both it, and a range of perchlorate reds with parlon, with and without magnalium, I would be interested if my feelings towards it were uninformed prejudice, or accurate predictions.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Seymour

[Ventsi]

Oops, I thought that formula was with Potassium Chlorate. I guess I'll go with one of Hardts formulae. Thanks

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I am very happy with the following blue :

 

KClO3 : 64.5

CuO : 13.4

Parlon : 5.4

Red Gum :9.9

Charcoal : 2

SGRS : 4.8

 

Also with the following deep orange from Ventsi :

 

6 KClO3

2 Dextrin

1 CaSO4

1 PVC

 

 

Is the Calcium Sulfate an exception to the Sulfur + Chlorate rule?

[Ventsi]

Well its a Sulfate and insoluble , I think it shouldn't react with the chlorate. I would think it acts as a desensitizer if anything, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

I still have a small sample of the original stars so I can observe if anything goes wrong with them, and they are still have not deteriorated at all.

Perhaps a more educated member could shine some more light on this.

[NightHawkInLight]

Sulfates are still dangerous with chlorates. All sulfur compounds sensitize chlorate mixtures.

[Seymour]

However, so do metal powders, Copper compounds... Fuels?

 

The biggest thing I would be worrying about when it comes to Sulfates + Chlorates, is how the sulfate was made. Was Sulfuric acid used, and could it still be a contaminant?

 

Obviously it is a good thing to not sensitise mixtures needlessly, but so long as a sulfate is pure, I would not consider it TOO bad. Remembering that many people do still roll compositions with sulfur over chlorate compositions, using high quality of chemicals, perhaps as well as a basic buffer to get away with it.

 

That said, I do not know exactly how much Sulfates do sensitise chlorates. I would be very interested to know. A comparison between the sensitising actions of Sulfates, Copper compounds, and reactive metals (-200 mesh MgAl, perhaps), is something I would find very interesting.

[derekroolz]

I once made a strobe out of black powder with nothing added, what happend was when I was making it I hade screwed up the ratios for one of the powders and it made a hard to light powder. But once light, it would strobe. I will try to make it agian and record it on avideo camera and put it on here for proof unless somebody already knows the mix...

[Seymour]

At a guess, you added too much Sulfur, and did not let it fully dry. I had the same problem with Black powder based, high sulfur white stars. They appeared dry, and burned as you described (on the ground, the burning was probably not stable enough to be sustained while encountering significant air resistance). After more drying however, they burned well.

[Ventsi]

Could you guys point me towards a good organic KP based red and blue?

Here's what I got to give you an idea:

 

KP

SrCO3

CuCO3

CuSO4

Red Gum

Saran

Charcoal

Dextrin

 

Right now I'm leaning towards Shimizu Red or Blesser 2 for RED. And either Shimizu 1 /Hardt Blue Star 5 for blue.

http://pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Blue_Stars_(Organic)

http://pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Red_Stars_(Organic)

Edited January 29, 2010 by Ventsi

[swervedriver]

I've used this one, Bleser Red, #1 I think- it's a good red color-

 

Potassium Perchlorate 70

Strontium Carbonate 15

Red Gum 10

Dextrin 4

Charcoal Airfloat 1

[scarbelly]

I'll second Bleser red #1 ^

 

I haven't tried it in the sky yet, but on the ground its very good looking.

[Mumbles]

I've had good luck with these two.

 

Pyro Science Blue - From Eric Hunkins

 

Potassium Perchlorate 66.1

Copper Oxide 13.4

Parlon 10.7

Red Gum 9.8

Dextrin 5

 

Total 105

 

 

Shimizu Blue #70

 

Potassium Perchlorate 63.8

Parlon 13.8

Copper(II) Oxide, black 12.9

Red Gum 9.5

Dextrin 4

Tare: Total: 104

[Ventsi]

I've had good luck with these two.

 

Pyro Science Blue - From Eric Hunkins

 

Potassium Perchlorate 66.1

Copper Oxide 13.4

Parlon 10.7

Red Gum 9.8

Dextrin 5

 

Total 105

 

 

Shimizu Blue #70

 

Potassium Perchlorate 63.8

Parlon 13.8

Copper(II) Oxide, black 12.9

Red Gum 9.5

Dextrin 4

Tare: Total: 104

 

 

Thanks, though I have neither Parlon or CuO , can I successfully substitute Saran resin and Copper carbonate 1:1?

 

 

Also, I just made a 100g batch of Blesser 1 , plus 1% Saran for a good measure, we'll see how they turn out.

[Mumbles]

Sorry, I posted the wrong one. Shimizu #70 is supposed to be Copper Carbonate. For the nicest blues and purples, I think parlon really is required. You should still get something acceptable with saran. You might be better off with some of the known formulas using saran, but keep the above in the back of your mind for the future.

[50AE]

I'm a little drunk so I hope there will be no problem with communication...

 

I have two formulas for red.. One with shellac and red gum, the other with red gum only. The oxidizer is potassium chlorate, the color agent is strontium carbonate.

Is it better to use the straight red gum one or the mixed fuels shellac and red gum one? Does the shellac make the red color better or no?

 

I think they were Hardt formulas.

Edited January 29, 2010 by 50AE

[swervedriver]

I made the B70 blue with the incorrect formula using copper oxide, and it made a nice blue too. Long burning stars. I found that the incorrect version of Shimizu B70 goes by another name too, Pihko KP#2 Blue (sans the 5% dextrin)

 

Pihko KP #2 Blue

 

Potassium Perchlorate 63 

Parlon 14

Copper(II) Oxide, black 13

Red Gum 10