I got my rocket tools!

[ActiveA]

I need a hand.

 

 

My friend is making me some tooling.

 

He's totally new to it.

 

 

I want to make 3/4' ID and 3' long rockets.

 

 

What are the dimensions I'll be wanting?

 

 

Thanks a heap.

 

Its an End burner, by the way.

[InRainbows]

Those dimensions would be better for a stinger, generic BP rockets are around 3/4' ID and 7 1/2' length.

[KinneticEnergy]

Yay! I picked up the tools from the machinist today, and he said I could have them for free!

 

Here's some pics:

 

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro009.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro010.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro005.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro014.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro013.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/Bigelbach/Pyro012.jpg

 

Tell me what you think

[TheSidewinder]

(I cleaned off the double post.)

 

 

 

 

Very nice!!

 

Looks like he took pains to get it right.

 

And free besides.... lucky you!

[lnstantkarma]

He is GOOD.

and I might use those plans next time I make tooling

 

Someone mentioned earlier that rocket bp is 60:30:10, I use standard 75:15:10 and I've never had a cato (only built about 10 so far though) whats going on? I use generic airfloat from skylighter and I know my bp is bad (I'm getting better charcoal) would that account for it? Or maybe if I switched to the 60:30:10 my stingers would be much better?

[moonshot]

Yeah Kinnetic the tooling looks great. Is it 3/8" or 1/2" ID? Either way I would use a 4" tube for your first motors and see how that works. Once you have your tube, put it on the spindle and insert the #1 rammer without any nozzle clay and scribe a mark on it. Then measure from that mark the length of the tube ID (3/8 or 1/2") and make another mark. This will allow you to ram a consistent thickness of nozzle. Also you can mark the #1 rammer at a point where you know you have rammed comp above the top of the spindle so you don't hit the spindle with the blunt rammer. All you need now is tubes, kitty litter and propellant and your on your way to building some sweet sky rockets!

[KinneticEnergy]

The only reason most people recommend 60:30:10, in a core burning rocket, is because most 75:15:10 is too 'hot'(meaning fast burning) To be used in a core burning rocket, 60 30 10 is slower. The increased thrust from the core, and the faster speed of the black powder, causes either the casing or nozzle plug to blow(CATO). About the speed of your bp; Airfloat from skylighter is completely unreliable for fast bp, it's usually mixed hardwoods, and is unsuitable for black powder. You would be much better off just making your own. The reason your bp is perfect for core burners, is that it burns slow enough to not cause a CATO. I tried the tools with my granulated bp, (75:15:10) and it CATO'd, so I guess ill make up a batch or two of 60:30:10... Now if only I could get a replacement belt for my mill .

 

About the tooling; The machinist has been machining(?) for quite a while. He called me up, and asked me a couple questions on the total length of the tooling etc, and the day after, he sent an email telling me it was ready. I don't think it was a challenge at all for him. I just might ask him to make some bigger tooling sometime, but this time, I think I'll insist to pay him at least $10.

 

Well, enough rambling...

 

 

EDIT: Hey moonshot, you replied while I was typing... It's 3/8" id... I've got 10 lbs of kitty litter, 50 lbs of bentonite, 35 lbs of kno3, and 5 lbs of rubbermakers sulfur. So all I need now is that replacement belt for the 6lb mill, and some homemade tubes(I just might get some 3/8" tubes from Firefox, but I'm not sure if it's worth the money...).

 

EDITING THE EDIT: I forgot to mention my (although slowly dwindling) supply of 1500ft of 1/16" visco. And lets not forget the infinite supply of charcoal from my fireplace

[Mumbles]

Rockets arn't my specialty, but I don't believe the 6:3:1 mix is milled at all, just screened. Generally it is damped and granulated, but this is mainly to keep dust down during pressing/ramming. Some may mill it simply to mix the components, and not do any sort of real grinding.

[psyco_1322]

Does anyone have some pics of Steve LaDuke Universal tooling? I just wanna see how he made the ends of the rammers. Please no general rules of rammers, I know what it should be, I just wanna see a picture of his actual tooling. Thanks.

 

Oh and nice looking tooling. I am currently programing some tooling to be turned in a CNC lathe, just working on the universal now but later I will make some more. Ill post some pics.

[moonshot]

Hey kinnetic are you in the states or abroad? If you are in the states I recommend rolling your tubes using grocery bags as per my tutorial. It looks like you have enough nozzle clay, KNO3 and sulfur to last a lifetime.

The 60/30/10 propellant mix should solve your CATO problem. When you get these rockets dialed in they should look like this.

http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/di...=Picture054.flv

[Mumbles]

I don't have any pictures, but I have used them before. The longest rammer (for the nozzle) had a 45 degree taper on it. There were 4 rammers, 3 cored and one flat. Besides the first rammer, they were all flat ended.

[KinneticEnergy]

Does anyone have some pics of Steve LaDuke Universal tooling?  I just wanna see how he made the  ends of the rammers.  Please no general rules of rammers, I know what it should be, I just wanna see a picture of his actual tooling.  Thanks.

 

Oh and nice looking tooling.  I am currently programing some tooling to be turned in a CNC lathe, just working on the universal now but later I will make some more.  Ill post some pics.

Here's a picture from wolter's site:

 

http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/image/pyrotool_172t.jpg

 

And the page with it(it wouldn't let me post the bigger photo, due to the dynamic page).

 

http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/image/pyrot...g?1205352094383

 

 

@Moonshot; I live in the states, and I'm planning on trying your paper bag method soon, right now i roll my tubes with reinforced gummed paper tape from Office Depot®.

 

Moonshot, you are quite a big inspiration for me, I wish I had as many sets of tools as you! Your rockets are SWEET, I hope one day, mine might compare to yours.

[FrankRizzo]

Note the small flat around the edge of the nozzle forming ram. That little lip will save you many headaches by helping to keep the clay from squeezing up between the rammer and the case wall, making it a PITA to remove the rammer.

[KinneticEnergy]

Yeah, he defiantly knows what he is doing! I didn't include that in the diagrams, or even mention it. All I told him was how the tooling would work, and he put it there for me! Great man to deal with. I am in the process of making him a business offer. If he accepts it, I will be selling sets of tools for bottom dollar prices over the net (Probably around $50). He is so good at what he does, it's scary

[psyco_1322]

Oh Rich is making them, I thought Steve was specially making them himself, every time a see it talked about he its always got Steve to contact for ordering them. Ok then, if Rich is making them than the rammers look similar on the ends to my others I got from him. I was just wondering about that small flat spot between the edge of the rammer and the begining of the taper and then the flat spot on the end of the taper.

 

Those are some nice traditional looking rockets you got there moonshot.

[FrankRizzo]

Both Steve and Rich make the tooling.

[TheSidewinder]

Yep, Frank's got it correct.

 

Steve is a skilled machinist in his own right, as well as being Da Rocket Man.

 

I've seen his work in both endeavours and would be happy to accomplish half as much of either.

[Aquarius]

Making tools for coreburning drivers is not that hard, I have made several. But to have GOOD and lasting tools, you could eigther use a lathe (I do) or buy from others. My best advice is to buy if you don't want to spend a lot of money on a lathe and then roll your own tubes fitting the bought tools. I guess the reason many here are experencing problems with CATO's is fuelrelated. Rather than changing the tooling, a better advice is to change the fuel (like many before me have pointed out..)

 

After all, they made perfectly good flying rockets in the Far East centuries ago, even without lathes, drillpresses, sparkfree material and so forth..

[lnstantkarma]

Does anyone here have 1lb rocket tooling? Either homemade or bought but if it's not too much trouble could you tell me the core length and nozzle diameter? I'm making some for myself I'm thinking a 5in core and maybe a .33in nozzle. (thats what I use for my stingers and those work fine)

[psymon]

I am in the process of making another set of rocket tools. I sent part of them away for welding together - I hope to have them next week.

 

I have commercial rocket tools and home made. The commercial rocket tools make excellent rockets. The only problem I have is that they are too long for my 2 ton arbor press so I made some myself.

The spindle length is about 5cm the rammer diameter is 7/8" and about 5 inches in length.

 

The best way to make tools is trial and error. Eventually you can dial in the exact formula for your tools and should be able to get some payloads off the ground.

[ActionTekJackson]

Well, hope someone here can help. I tried sifting through the rocket threads, I know I've found this info before but I can't remember. I'm wanting to make some larger diameter rockets, such as 2-3" ID, but I cannot remember how long the tube should be, the Diameter of the core and nozzle, and the length of the core (I could probly figure that one out). These are going to be KNO3/Sucrose composites too so that might make the dimensions change for best results. (hence the reason I haven't just measure my 1lb BP tooling set and scaled it up. anyone?

[Roadapple]

http://www.flashnet.dk/rts/ Might help you.

[shadopyro]

Perhaps abit of a late reply, but anyway.

 

On the subject of Steve Ladukes universal tooling kit, I notice that the core drift looks different to the BP tooling set. Perhaps meaning that the nozzel diameter is slightly larger for the UT kit?

 

I mean has anyone had any experiences with both kits? My question being whether or not there's a marked difference between the BP engine made with the UT kit or the BP rocket kit. Mostly in terms of thrust, or more appropriately, the payload capacity.

I guess there must be some kind of fuel ratio difference between the two kits' engines?

 

Yeaaaaahhh alotta question but the kits are gonna set me back about 150bucks plus shipping!

[WonderBoy]

Dagabu answers that question very nicely in the "Wolter's one pound BP rocket kit ok for one pound rammed sugar rockets?" thread, bottom of the first page.

[shadopyro]

Crud > Guess I missed that.

 

Cheers