WSM Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I have never work with MMO. I am quite satisfied with Mno2 electrodes. They are good chlorate makers with almost no errosion. They can easily be made and heal them too. They can also be made from cheap and easily available materials. Do you have details of your process to make the manganese dioxide anode? It might be worth trying sometime in the future. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Do you have details of your process to make the manganese dioxide anode? It might be worth trying sometime in the future. WSM You can search a video on youtube fron Nurdge "how to make a Mno2 electrode". He have made two of them. His first one was not so good but it have there useful informations.TiH2 is A LOT conductive, maybe more than Ti itselt. Edited May 26, 2015 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 MnO2 stuff is here http://oxidizing.typhoonguitars.com/chlorate/mno2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 You can search a video on youtube fron Nurdge "how to make a Mno2 electrode". He have made two of them. His first one was not so good but it have there useful informations.TiH2 is A LOT conductive, maybe more than Ti itselt. From a Google search, it appears that TiH2 is "slightly less" conductive than titanium. Titanium has a conductivity of 3.1 (by comparison to copper as 100.0). Thanks for the references to manganese dioxide anodes. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 MnO2 stuff is herehttp://oxidizing.typhoonguitars.com/chlorate/mno2.html Thanks, Frank. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I have never work with MMO. I am quite satisfied with Mno2 electrodes. They are good chlorate makers with almost no errosion. They can easily be made and heal them too. They can also be made from cheap and easily available materials. Does your electrolyte turn pink when you run the cell? That might be a problem for pyrotechnic compositions, thinking some permanganate may be formed using the manganese dioxide anode. More research into this is probably needed. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Yes it does but only at the start. With some h2o2 the pink color disappears. Edited May 29, 2015 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Now what about TiH2, will it make chlorates or perchlorates ? We have to test it. Nobody have test it before ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yes it does but only at the start. With some h2o2 the pink color disappears.So the question now is, is the manganese gone or just not visible? Manganese is a catalyst for the breakdown of chlorates (making them even more reactive!!!). WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Now what about TiH2, will it make chlorates or perchlorates ? We have to test it. Nobody have test it before ? I have my doubts but I'd love to be proven wrong. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I have my doubts but I'd love to be proven wrong. WSM https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071201160956AAOQHDc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071201160956AAOQHDc Permanganate and peroxide titration? That's all well and good, but my comment was related to the usefulness of titanium hydride for a chlorate anode. I'm not sure about the chlorate cell but the oxygen overpotential of TiH2 is probably nowhere near high enough for a perchlorate cell; hence my doubts. Again, I'd love to be proven wrong but I have my doubts. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 So the question now is, is the manganese gone or just not visible? Manganese is a catalyst for the breakdown of chlorates (making them even more reactive!!!).WSM The response, https://answers.yaho...01160956AAOQHDc appears to show that the oxidation state of the manganese changes but it's still in there. I believe it'll still catalyze the breakdown of the chlorate, making it even more sensitive, unless it can be dropped out and removed completely. I hope I'm wrong. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Given electrodes of known function (Pt and lead dioxide ) no-one has yet set up and run a proof of concept perc cell from which a practical set up can be derived. Is there value in chasing other systems that don't have history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I have never seen somene before try it. And except that, it will may be suitable for chlorates. Hydrated Ti is easy to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Ti Hydride may be functional, pick up the baton and run with it. Go seek out the electrochemistry and chemical engineering of TiHydride with specific reference to perchlorate production. Come back with a properly researched and referenced paper, tell us how much chlorate or perc you made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Dimaond anode will work (if ya can get/make it) OK for perchlorate.That seems to be about it.I always thought magnetite may be a workable alternative. Terrible bad CE (around 10% ) but thats not too far away from (speaking in kg of actual product made per time per amp) a chlorate cell going at 50%!. Remember it takes three times less current to put on just the one oxygen. Perhaps I am a little too hopeful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Dimaond anode will work (if ya can get/make it) OK for perchlorate.That seems to be about it.I always thought magnetite may be a workable alternative. Terrible bad CE (around 10% ) but thats not too far away from (speaking in kg of actual product made per time per amp) a chlorate cell going at 50%!. Remember it takes three times less current to put on just the one oxygen. Perhaps I am a little too hopeful?That's boron doped diamond, rather than just diamond. If I could find an anode of it at an affordable price, I'd certainly be willing to try it in a perchlorate cell. That would be an interesting test. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 so how goes the trial with lead dioxide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 so how goes the trial with lead dioxideThe test ran very well. I'm preparing to document the purification of the raw sodium perchlorate and the conversion to potassium perchlorate. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 my main difficulty with the sodium route is how do I purify sodium chlorate? It is highly soluble in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That is the beauty of it. In this case the solubility is your friend. Just need a compatible salt to do a double exchange . The solid or gas will separate leaving a purified chlorate in solution. A simple decanting and forced drying will procure a finished product if that is the end goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That's fine if I want to make potassium chlorate, but I want to purify sodium chlorate so it can be turned into sodium perchlorate. How do I get the sodium chlorate out of the cell so that there's no residual chloride killing anodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 What about this ?http://www.oocities.org/capecanaveral/campus/5361/chlorate/remove.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroChile Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ...... I'll do this with samples of the raw sodium perchlorate from both test cells and observe and record the differences and similarities I see. The results of these efforts will be posted here plus be featured in part ten of my series on Homegrown Oxidizers in the PGI Bulletin. The next effort will be trying to make pure sodium chlorate to use as feed stock for the perchlorate cells and recording the results (and the differences from reagent grade sodium chlorate used for the first runs of the two perchlorate cells). WSM Hello WSM. I am interested in your publications. Where i can buy it? Best Regards, =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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