OblivionFall Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 1. There will not be a flash section. As a matter of fact the "People on this forum keep bringing up the same flash powder topic over and over again." is getting really old, and is going to be stopping. 2. I find it quite curious OblivionFall how you had no idea how much BP is needed to lift shells 2 weeks ago, but are now handing out construction advice on somewhat large shells. Something doesn't quite add up.When did I not know how much lift was needed? And is it not 1/8th of the shell's weight or 1/16th if your BP is very hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Oblivion mumbles is right, a lot of your tips given here is not right. E.g you say granulated flash doesn't work in amall salutes. Well it works in cap plug salutes if done right. You also say that you will need more flash in bigger if the shell becommes bigger, which is just not right. For this to much depends on the construction mwthod itself. E.g if i take a 3" ball shell i use about 1, 5g of flash to get a hard break, in a 4" i need 3g but in a 6" 2g is all i need. More just doesn't improves anything and the reason for this is quite easy. In a 6" you have about 320g bp as brake charge, which is a lot of power at itself. If you have good bp you alsk can skip the flash and allready have trouble with the break charge beiing to strong in a 3" to get a good willow effect. The ammounts of flash you list are also quite high. E.g. take fucanellys spiderweb/sfera construction. There he list 12 g of flash for a 6" shell, which is allready quite a lot with todays aluminiums and will only work with the fast burning spider stars. But not with general color comps. For lift charge, you say you know how much is needed, but then ask if it was 1/8 or 1/16 in the same sentence. That is a littlebit strange. Just stay with the ounce per pound up to 10 lb rule (over 4") and you are fine (1/16). Under 4" you may need to use more, depending on your lift quality. Edited November 14, 2015 by schroedinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 You guys are right we must be careful with the advice we offer. For me for now I will continue to use Lloyds method of shell construction as listed on passfire. It works quite well for me. Lloyd suggests using 5 grams 70/30 for central flash with 40 grams BP in each hemispheres for break. At max I had planned to keep 5g 70/30 for 5 inch shells but thought that might be too much so I was considering using nitrate flash for the central bag instead of standard flash because I thought it would be less violent. For me 5 inch shells consume too much material to experiment with and I like the lower pitched report of nitrate. Oblivion was right about 6/3/1 being lower than 5/3/1. I know there is concern about discussing flash due to people using it illegally in ground reports but my only intent was for use in aerial effects. It seems essential in small shells and Crossettes as well as hollow cavity star inserts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memo Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I looked into and make nitrate flash for bottom shots, comet to report and other inserts, it does a poor job with trying to break crossettes. flash bags don't work very well.if I had perchlorate I would use it. I am not making ground salutes. I would use slow flash for boosting breaks. I know mumbles is getting pissed , but flash does have a place and needs to be talked about imho. memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Memo i think you missunderstood mumbles. He isn't going to ban discussion on flash at all, just like this thread shows, but we won't get an forum area only dedicated to flash and flash topics will be moderated a lot. The reason for this is on hand, flash is part of this art and neccessary but also has its dark sides. Ground salutes can be classified as ilegal explosives as long as you don't have the right license. Also this forum is mostly dedicated to the art of making of effect fireworks, and pure salutes don't fit this sheme. Also since the forum is free a lot of geginners come here, those guys shouldn't start with salutes, but eather learn how fireworks work @merlin did you think about resorting to paper shells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OblivionFall Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yeah you guys are probably right. I should stop giving advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OblivionFall Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Oblivion mumbles is right, a lot of your tips given here is not right. E.g you say granulated flash doesn't work in amall salutes. Well it works in cap plug salutes if done right. I never said that it doesn't work in small salutes, I said that the smaller the salute (or any firework really), the smaller the particle size should be. The larger the shell the larger the particles can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 @merlin did you think about resorting to paper shells? Yes I do make paper for small ones. But I am relatively inexperienced with the larger ones and wanted a proven method which is what I found in detail on passfire. Lloyds method works well exactly as it is written for 4's and he did tell me the same method could be applied to a five. I may at some point convert to paper for large shells. I would assume the break might be achieved with only BP in the large ones if pasted well enough. If thats true it would be worth the extra work just for safety reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Merlin kyle has a lot of different articles on different size and effect shells at passfire. If you want to go paper, read the pasting articles. They are good. The Shimizu pattern is the easiest and worms god up to 6", but it isn't very beatifull.For the effect you best start with a single layer of round stars it is the easiest pattern possible. Use MCRH or even better puffed rice as the burst charge and add flash if you need it. Also have a look at Ned Gorskis youtube channel. There he has a lot of very good tutorials. Most ball shells can be just scalled up or down in size without any problems of change in construction. Most times just the bjrst charge has to be altered. Also we have a good tutorial section here on apc. For ball shells have a look at it. The article about ball shells from mumbles is a good starting point (exept for the mess on his table). http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/1463-6-double-petal/ Edited November 15, 2015 by schroedinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 ha, I thought my table got messy, guess not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Thanks I will check them out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle66 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 As I read through this thread, the strongest impression I get is that people are making this whole burst thing too complicated. The simple mix I learned is one part rice hulls coated with 5:1 hot BP:whistle(perc/benz), for 3" and many 4" round shells. For most 4" shells, the same BP without the whistle. I get good bursts with few blind stars, a nice bang without an overly bright flash. If I get too many blind stars, I either dial back to the softer burst mix, prime the stars better or both. Disclosure: I've only been active in shell building for about a 1-1/2 yr, but I've been fortunate to have experienced builders in my club guide me along the way, and one of the things that has been stressed is the KISS principal. Most of my shells are just lined with stars and the middle filled level with the above described burst compound. Nothing complicated with weight ratios and flash formulas. Just my opinion, but I"d rather KISS the burst and save the complicated stuff for my stars and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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