Lactose Blue or Conkling Blue?

[jerronimo]

Jer-

 

Did you make those in cut stars or pumped? I seem to remember a formula like that being used in box stars but took longer to dry out...

 

No didn't experience long dryingtimes when I made these with water based binders.

I use acetone for all my parlon colours, so dryingtimes are very short.

Edited October 28, 2010 by jerronimo

[KruseMissile]

if you want an ocean blue. Make veline blue w/o MgAl. I discovered it by accident, but its really easy to light only thing is that its dark.

[mfstraydog1]

what type of prime is everyone using on there Pihko blue stars. i just rolled 1000g and was thinking of using a hot prime on them.

[burningRNX]

Mostly bleser hotprime, and a final layer of BP.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Mostly bleser hotprime, and a final layer of BP.

 

What's Bleser hotprime? Can't find it on the board or by googling it.

[dagabu]

This is the one I have cataloged.

 

 

Blesser Prime

 

Potassium Perchlorate 75

 

Red Gum 12

 

Charcoal Airfloat 9

 

Dextrin 4

 

-dag

[Potassiumchlorate]

I use a similar prime with silicon for igniting magnesium fueled stars (some of them actually are Bleser compositions), but maybe that one is enough.

 

Thank you!

[Mumbles]

Blesser gives two other igniters. One for flash cores originally from Shimizu, and one for strobes also probably also from Shimizu. The strobe igniter is closer to what I'd call a hot prime.

 

Potassium perchlorate - 74

Red gum - 12

Charcoal - 6

Aluminum dark - 3

Potassium dichromate - 5

 

A member here, qwezxc12, uses the above prime by scrapping the dichromate and replacing it with dextrin. Blesser in his book calls for binding with alcohol or lacquer in order to make an inpermeable layer between the AP strobes and BP final prime. That is obviously not a problem if you're not using AP stars. I use a variation given by Lloyd Sponnenburgh, which he calls pinball prime. The 1oz/lb equates to about +6 parts. I often slurry prime the stars using alcohol.

 

KP - 75

C - 15

red gum - 10

Dex 1oz/lb

 

All rough; no milling.

 

That's the basic. For especially tough-to-light stuff, add your choice of --

 

1 oz / lb American Dark aluminum

1 oz / lb -325m Mg/Al or -200 for extra ''sizzle''

1 oz / lb -325m silicon powder

 

The basic mix - without metal - will light our white mag stars without any trouble. They are your basic KP/Barium Nitrate/Aluminum flash powder with a scosh' of red gum and a smidgin of dex. They roll up hard, heavy, shiny, and COLD to the touch. They're difficult to ignite with a blowtorch, but pinball prime lights 'em every time.

 

LLoyd

-----

 

ED NOTE: This is not a ''set it and forget it'' prime ... you do need to pay attention to typical priming procedures like step prime of needed, and always finish with a BP dusting. See the various forum posts for details.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Since we are speaking of Bleser and blue, the latter a subject coming up over and over and over again, this one might be good to try as well:

 

Potassium chlorate 65

Copper oxychloride 12

Lactose 13

Hexachlorobenzene 5

Dextrin 5

 

Instead of the hard-to-get HCB PVC, parlon, chlorowax etc might be used.

[LambentPyro]

I know this is an old topic, but what is actually the best blue? Conkling, Pihko KP, or Pyro Science that Mumbles listed?

 

If I wanted to use that Bleser prime that dag listed without the Dichromate, how thick of it is necessary to ensure a good ignition? 1/16"?

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I am a huge fan of pihko kp #4. I doubt I'll try anything else. Make sure you have a healthy prime. They blow blind easy

[pyrokid]

The 60-20-10-10 blue that jerronimo posted works well for me. It lights easily with BP prime.

[Mumbles]

Best is all subjective. My personal preferences are for a slightly modified Shimizu formula for chlorate, and Pyro Science for perchlorate. Most of the formulas given in this thread will work great. Generally the issue is not getting the stars to light. Being mostly organic stars, they light fairly easily. The biggest issue is having the stars blow out while flying through the air. Perchlorate based blue stars seem particularly prone to this for some reason.

[LambentPyro]

I tried the Shimizu KP Copper Oxide based Blue (believe it's B70) and subbed the Parlon with Saran and experienced horrible results. They took forever to dry and a solid 1/16" BP with 10% Silicon prime and BP Green Mix prime (1/32" each prime) didn't ignite them. Some did, some didn't and they were sized very accurately so all the stars had the same thickness prime. If it's not consistently passing tests, I simply won't use it. On some of the tests (Edit: static ground tests, none in a gun), they actually flickered and the blue flame disappeared for a little bit. Very odd stars, never'll use it again.

 

I made a batch of the Pyro Science KP Blue and I'm going to give it a try. I just need to make sure I'm using the right prime and enough prime. They're going to be in an inner petal, so they shouldn't have a problem with blowing out because they don't have a high velocity I would imagine.

Edited June 24, 2014 by LambentPyro

[nater]

My favorite perc blue has been Hardt #6 Sulfur Blue. I made a batch subbing saran in place of dechlorane and phenolic resin for the red gum. My first test looked more purple than I cared for, but the stars were not fully dry. I need to test them again now that they are.

[LambentPyro]

Any updates on that batch Nate?

[nater]

They are dry but still not primed. Work and other obligations have been keeping me away from these experiments the past few weeks. Too many 12 hour shifts have turned into 15 or 16 hours and the nature of the days has left me more drained to the point where working on pyro becomes dangerous.

[LambentPyro]

Fair enough, keep me posted with any updates please.

[nater]

I lit one today, it was a bit pale on the ground, but bluer and no red tip to the flame. It is promising, so I will make a larger batch to make a shell out of and compare with the other formula and see how they look. Currently my favorite blue is the Hardt Blue #6 as it is published and the modifications made to G. Smith's Blue Parlon Star.

[LambentPyro]

That has Hexamine, right?

[nater]

Yes, it uses hexamine. Here is the formula I used, and am currently calling Blue #1 for my own tests:

 

Potassium Perchlorate: 63

Black Copper Oxide: 12

Phenolic Resin: 6

Hexamine: 5

Saran: 15

 

The original formula from Gary Smith used Parlon, Red Gum and Copper Carbonate, each subbed 1:1 with Saran, Phenolic Resin and Black Copper Oxide respectively. Try it, and let me know what you think.

[hindsight]

Yes, it uses hexamine. Here is the formula I used, and am currently calling Blue #1 for my own tests:

 

Potassium Perchlorate: 63

Black Copper Oxide: 12

Phenolic Resin: 6

Hexamine: 5

Saran: 15

 

The original formula from Gary Smith used Parlon, Red Gum and Copper Carbonate, each subbed 1:1 with Saran, Phenolic Resin and Black Copper Oxide respectively. Try it, and let me know what you think.

This formula is similar to a Shimizu Blue formula in this thread http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9762-undesired-orange-color-in-stars/ where I replaced red gum with phenolic resin and put Saran (at your suggestion) in the place of Parlon. A major difference is the addition of hexamine. I am eager to try your version above. Assuming you used ethanol, that is the solvent I will use. Not planning to subject the mixture to heat, unless instructed otherwise, and will prime with Pinball. Thanks.

[nater]

Correct, I use alcohol as the solvent for stars bound with red gum or phenolic resin. I have not tried the method to cure the resin with hexamine in a drying box. I dry everything in a safe place in open air and have yet to build one.

 

I use pinball prime with a layer of green mix BP as the final layer. Step priming with star comp and BP or another hot prime should work fine.

Edited July 13, 2014 by nater

[hindsight]

Done. Despite fairly generous powdering with prime during the cutting process (as in Ned's tutorial), the stars seem to stick together a bit more than with previous star cutting. The main difference might be the Saran, although most people seem to complain about Parlon, no? I believe the same degree of wetting with ethanol was achieved compared to usual. Minor irritation, only. They may be dry tomorrow and ready to test.

[nater]

I have only cut one small batch of stars with phenolic resin, so my experience is too little to be of much help. They did stick together after cutting more than water / dextrin bound stars. Cutting stars with parlon / acetone is fairly sticky as well, but possible. I pump most of my stars, and the resin / alcohol pumps wonderfully.