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Lactose Blue or Conkling Blue?


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#21 50AE

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:08 AM

Gonna try the pyro science blue, but modified a little bit. Replacing KClO4 with KClO3, red gum with shellac, binding with gum arabic and 1% K2Cr2O7 solution. Why the dichromate?

From passfire:
Jim Freeman - Freeman's blue
The formula bound with regular water is a typical perchlorate blue. However, when potassium dichromate is dissolved in the water used to bind the stars, the blue becomes deeper with a brighter flame envelope compareable to a chlorate blue. The idea is to catalyze the KClO4 with the dichromate ion.

The amount of dichromate to dissolve should be calculated such that the amount of water used deliveres 1% dichromate by weight. Making the dichromate concentration stronger will not effect the performance, so you don't have to be exact.


I'm curious if it will affect the KClO3.

#22 Mumbles

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:36 PM

My experiences with formulas you're describing is that you can use FAR less parlon than a perchlorate counter part. The chlorate blue I like uses around half the parlon.

I would maybe take Jim's formula with a grain of salt. He does include a rather substantial amount of potassium nitrate, a chemical known to wash out stars and colors of all sorts.
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#23 50AE

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:14 PM

Yes Mumbles, the formula you're talking about is:

66,5 KClO3
13,4 CuO
5,4 Parlon
9,9 Red gum
4,8 SGRS or dextrin

This is still a very good and cheap formula I used some time ago, but I wanted to find out if adding more parlon will improve it.

About the stars with dichromate solutions. Well, it seems that Cr does some job, but I have to test the stars in air to confirm it. The flame envelope seems larger.

Edited by 50AE, 19 October 2010 - 03:15 PM.


#24 jerronimo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

If you want a really, really simple very good looking blue with large flame envelope and you don't mind working with chlorate's I recommend this one:

KClO3 60
Lactose 20
CuO 10
Parlon 10

For a good purple replace 4 parts of the CuO with Srco3.

Bind with acetone, or replace 25% of the lactose with dextrin.

#25 Dr Boom

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:24 PM

Jer-

Did you make those in cut stars or pumped? I seem to remember a formula like that being used in box stars but took longer to dry out...
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#26 jerronimo

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:36 AM

Jer-

Did you make those in cut stars or pumped? I seem to remember a formula like that being used in box stars but took longer to dry out...


No didn't experience long dryingtimes when I made these with water based binders.
I use acetone for all my parlon colours, so dryingtimes are very short.

Edited by jerronimo, 28 October 2010 - 10:37 AM.


#27 KruseMissile

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 07:07 PM

if you want an ocean blue. Make veline blue w/o MgAl. I discovered it by accident, but its really easy to light only thing is that its dark.
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#28 mfstraydog1

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 10:14 PM

what type of prime is everyone using on there Pihko blue stars. i just rolled 1000g and was thinking of using a hot prime on them.
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#29 burningRNX

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 08:46 AM

Mostly bleser hotprime, and a final layer of BP.

#30 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 10:11 AM

Mostly bleser hotprime, and a final layer of BP.


What's Bleser hotprime? Can't find it on the board or by googling it.
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#31 dagabu

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:54 PM

This is the one I have cataloged.


Blesser Prime

Potassium Perchlorate 75

Red Gum 12

Charcoal Airfloat 9

Dextrin 4

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#32 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:54 PM

I use a similar prime with silicon for igniting magnesium fueled stars (some of them actually are Bleser compositions), but maybe that one is enough.

Thank you!
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#33 Mumbles

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:35 PM

Blesser gives two other igniters. One for flash cores originally from Shimizu, and one for strobes also probably also from Shimizu. The strobe igniter is closer to what I'd call a hot prime.

Potassium perchlorate - 74
Red gum - 12
Charcoal - 6
Aluminum dark - 3
Potassium dichromate - 5

A member here, qwezxc12, uses the above prime by scrapping the dichromate and replacing it with dextrin. Blesser in his book calls for binding with alcohol or lacquer in order to make an inpermeable layer between the AP strobes and BP final prime. That is obviously not a problem if you're not using AP stars. I use a variation given by Lloyd Sponnenburgh, which he calls pinball prime. The 1oz/lb equates to about +6 parts. I often slurry prime the stars using alcohol.

KP - 75
C - 15
red gum - 10
Dex 1oz/lb

All rough; no milling.

That's the basic. For especially tough-to-light stuff, add your choice of --

1 oz / lb American Dark aluminum
1 oz / lb -325m Mg/Al or -200 for extra ''sizzle''
1 oz / lb -325m silicon powder

The basic mix - without metal - will light our white mag stars without any trouble. They are your basic KP/Barium Nitrate/Aluminum flash powder with a scosh' of red gum and a smidgin of dex. They roll up hard, heavy, shiny, and COLD to the touch. They're difficult to ignite with a blowtorch, but pinball prime lights 'em every time.

LLoyd
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ED NOTE: This is not a ''set it and forget it'' prime ... you do need to pay attention to typical priming procedures like step prime of needed, and always finish with a BP dusting. See the various forum posts for details.

Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#34 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 02:15 PM

Since we are speaking of Bleser and blue, the latter a subject coming up over and over and over again, this one might be good to try as well:

Potassium chlorate 65
Copper oxychloride 12
Lactose 13
Hexachlorobenzene 5
Dextrin 5

Instead of the hard-to-get HCB PVC, parlon, chlorowax etc might be used.
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#35 LambentPyro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:32 PM

I know this is an old topic, but what is actually the best blue? Conkling, Pihko KP, or Pyro Science that Mumbles listed?

If I wanted to use that Bleser prime that dag listed without the Dichromate, how thick of it is necessary to ensure a good ignition? 1/16"?
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#36 TYRONEEZEKIEL

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

I am a huge fan of pihko kp #4. I doubt I'll try anything else. Make sure you have a healthy prime. They blow blind easy
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#37 pyrokid

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:20 PM

The 60-20-10-10 blue that jerronimo posted works well for me. It lights easily with BP prime.



#38 Mumbles

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:34 PM

Best is all subjective.  My personal preferences are for a slightly modified Shimizu formula for chlorate, and Pyro Science for perchlorate.  Most of the formulas given in this thread will work great.  Generally the issue is not getting the stars to light.  Being mostly organic stars, they light fairly easily.  The biggest issue is having the stars blow out while flying through the air.  Perchlorate based blue stars seem particularly prone to this for some reason. 


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#39 LambentPyro

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:36 PM

I tried the Shimizu KP Copper Oxide based Blue (believe it's B70) and subbed the Parlon with Saran and experienced horrible results. They took forever to dry and a solid 1/16" BP with 10% Silicon prime and BP Green Mix prime (1/32" each prime) didn't ignite them. Some did, some didn't and they were sized very accurately so all the stars had the same thickness prime. If it's not consistently passing tests, I simply won't use it. On some of the tests (Edit: static ground tests, none in a gun), they actually flickered and the blue flame disappeared for a little bit. Very odd stars, never'll use it again.

I made a batch of the Pyro Science KP Blue and I'm going to give it a try. I just need to make sure I'm using the right prime and enough prime. They're going to be in an inner petal, so they shouldn't have a problem with blowing out because they don't have a high velocity I would imagine.

Edited by LambentPyro, 23 June 2014 - 11:37 PM.

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#40 nater

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:12 AM

My favorite perc blue has been Hardt #6 Sulfur Blue. I made a batch subbing saran in place of dechlorane and phenolic resin for the red gum. My first test looked more purple than I cared for, but the stars were not fully dry. I need to test them again now that they are.
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