gun410 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'm new to rockets I know you press bentonite clay then press BP but instead of using rocket tooling do you think I could drill the the middle out instead and one last question could i use a paper tube that I made thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 OK!!! Kid, you are talking my kind of talk! WHOO-HOO! Yes, you use clay and there WILL be many that say NO! to my recommendation but as part of my rehab, I have been pounding (not pressing) clay nozzles from precious cat litter, best looking nozzles I have ever made and I have made a LOT of nozzles! Its crap on small rockets if pressed but is fantastic pounded. It's cheap too, it can be bought online for $17.99 a bag delivered (40 pounds!). Yes you CAN drill a hole but not with an electric drill, I use a push drill (google it) to open my nozzles to the correct size. Better is to use a nipple and a rammer set. PM me if you need a cheap 1/2" set. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IXlHjqqKL._SY300_.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I am glad you can get that kitty litter to make a good nozzle when ramming. Big rocket or small, I need to press it. I do agree that once it is well consolidated, it makes great nozzles. If you get it consolidated nicely by pounding it, that is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Your a funny man Dag, "Nozzle Rehab" . I use the cheapest kitty little I could find. I bought a massive bag of the stuff, if I ever finish it I will be very proud of myself. I blend mine up before compacting (food processor, rough blend- it was pretty rocky. It helps with smaller motors.), I have both rammed and pressed to success. I have heard it consolidates better without blending, so don't feel the need. Anyone else read/tested that? +1 Get dag to make you up some tooling, it will be the best thing you've ever done. He'll look after you. It will ensure you have some nice straight flying motors to get you all excited early in your pyro career . Edited July 16, 2014 by jessoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Kitty litter, the cheaper the better, at least around here. The extra expenses are from additives e don't need / want.I add the whole amount for the nozzle in one go, and then press it. I have a tiny amount of motor oil in it, i find it helps with making a really solid clay plug, which helps with erosion.My kitty litter gets ballmilled, and then i add the motor oil, and blend it well. I think i read 3% somewhere but i'm more in the area of 1.5-2% my self.What would really help it to "bite" and give structural integrity is to add grog, but i refuse to. It eats tooling. (Grog is simply crushed fired clay. Makes for a lot of hard sharp edges. Ideal for structural integrity, not so ideal for longevity of tooling.)B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Kitty litter, the cheaper the better, at least around here. The extra expenses are from additives e don't need / want.I add the whole amount for the nozzle in one go, and then press it. I have a tiny amount of motor oil in it, i find it helps with making a really solid clay plug, which helps with erosion.My kitty litter gets ballmilled, and then i add the motor oil, and blend it well. I think i read 3% somewhere but i'm more in the area of 1.5-2% my self.What would really help it to "bite" and give structural integrity is to add grog, but i refuse to. It eats tooling. (Grog is simply crushed fired clay. Makes for a lot of hard sharp edges. Ideal for structural integrity, not so ideal for longevity of tooling.)B! Great points all. @Nater, I do get really nice 1/2" nozzles using Precious clay but cant press it, it just falls out in chunks no matter how lite or heavy I press. Ramming it is a whole other matter, glassy surfaces, good bulge in the tube and consistent throat sizes. @MrB, Just Say NO to Grog! Indeed my friend, grog eats my tooling too and I hate having to turn tooling to true the edges after grog abrades them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun410 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 OK!!! Kid, you are talking my kind of talk! WHOO-HOO! Yes, you use clay and there WILL be many that say NO! to my recommendation but as part of my rehab, I have been pounding (not pressing) clay nozzles from precious cat litter, best looking nozzles I have ever made and I have made a LOT of nozzles! Its crap on small rockets if pressed but is fantastic pounded. It's cheap too, it can be bought online for $17.99 a bag delivered (40 pounds!). Yes you CAN drill a hole but not with an electric drill, I use a push drill (google it) to open my nozzles to the correct size. Better is to use a nipple and a rammer set. PM me if you need a cheap 1/2" set. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IXlHjqqKL._SY300_.jpgDoes clay work good 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 This is clay but is formed into chunks. Loose clay like bentonite does not work well for me. All clay is not equal, some is not suitable at all for nozzles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyropro Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 http://www.amazon.com/Crown-106-Beechwood-Mallet-2-Inch/dp/B002S0OIW6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405530693&sr=8-2&keywords=wood+working+mallets I have one of these and if your ramming baby this is right up your alley.Its the best hammer you can have and I have rammed hundreds of rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Prob. You've to try witch clay works best for you. And easy start would be to get the 6mm Bottle rocket set from Wolther. It's easy to roll tubes for it and fast made up. Bentonite makes a god plug for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I have a delrin hammer I use for ramming rockets, not a lot of heft but it's hard to split casings with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I've had the same experience as Dag with pressing kitty litter. I've pressed it so hard that the tube split, but apart from the very top and very bottom layers it still falls apart when I tap it on the table. On the other hand, ramming it with a 3 pound mallet sets it just fine every time. I have a similar experience with Hawthorne Bond - pressed or rammed it doesn't hold together, and often blows out on firing - but fine bentonite is ok. At the last Winter Blast someone gave me a baggie of waxed bentonite and that made the best nozzles I've ever had, and the easiest to consolidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldspark Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I just use the fine bentonite with 5% mineral oil added, that's all I have ever used and obtained the information on the net some where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun410 Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnie Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) I have been involved with pyro for about a year now, was curious about the rocketry aspect. Avid model rocket builder. You can avoid making nozzles if you wish to.Basic Nozzleless Rocket Fuel FormulaPotassium nitrate 75%Airfloat charcoal 15%Sulfur 10%Mineral oil +2%Lacquer thinner 1/4 cup Dissolve the mineral oil in the thinner, then add to your black powder mix that has been ballmilled for at least 6 hours, this makes a 4 oz batch and makes six 1/2-inch-ID motors- from Skylighter, which I highly recommend. Reading and absorbing all the info that they have has benefited many newbies. Wear safety glasses and good luck Edited July 19, 2014 by burnie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have been involved with pyro for about a year now, was curious about the rocketry aspect. Avid model rocket builder. You can avoid making nozzles if you wish to.Basic Nozzleless Rocket Fuel FormulaPotassium nitrate 75%Airfloat charcoal 15%Sulfur 10%Mineral oil +2%Lacquer thinner 1/4 cup Dissolve the mineral oil in the thinner, then add to your black powder mix that has been ballmilled for at least 6 hours, this makes a 4 oz batch and makes six 1/2-inch-ID motors- from Skylighter, which I highly recommend. Reading and absorbing all the info that they have has benefited many newbies. Wear safety glasses and good luckConsider not ball milling the BP but only mill the ingredients as needed and screen mix them, whet them with denatured alcohol and rice. No need to ball mill finished BP for rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have been involved with pyro for about a year now, was curious about the rocketry aspect. Avid model rocket builder. You can avoid making nozzles if you wish to.Basic Nozzleless Rocket Fuel FormulaPotassium nitrate 75%Airfloat charcoal 15%Sulfur 10%Mineral oil +2%Lacquer thinner 1/4 cup Dissolve the mineral oil in the thinner, then add to your black powder mix that has been ballmilled for at least 6 hours, this makes a 4 oz batch and makes six 1/2-inch-ID motors- from Skylighter, which I highly recommend. Reading and absorbing all the info that they have has benefited many newbies. Wear safety glasses and good luck So, would this formula be good for end burner or core burner rockets ? Oh .. and no nozzle right ? Im pretty new as well ... maybe a month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnie Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Cored http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/nozzleless-speed-rockets.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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