TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 So as of last month I came across an immense goldmine of Pyro supplies. Taking me from two 3" mortars and one 4" mortar to racks upon racks of mortars for me all sizes up to 12". It also came with an oda 50-q firing controller. Now I have over half a ton of kno3 amidst countless other supplies. Back to the point. I feel that making this big of a jump in equipment gives me a legitimate ability to put on a proper show. Now I don't plan to jump from building 4s to 12s, but I would like to work my way there. So my question is in regards to taking proper precautions in building a show with to many mortars full of shells. How should I approach tackling this beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdercks Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi tyron I don't want to sound like a moron but I don't think that having a lot of equipment gives you the ability to put on a show, well, it kinda does,(I have 60-1.91" hdpe tubes, 10- 2.5" tubes, 10- 3" tubes and 1500 1" id x 6" long tubes for making cakes and I still don't think I'm qualified to set up a proper show not because I don't know how but because I haven't been properly trained by a professional),but in my opinion getting licensed and getting trained with the pros that's whats gives you the ability (experience) to set up a proper show, although not being licensed hasn't stopped me from setting up a few small shows . I know I am not providing an actual answer to your question but I hope you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The best way is to start with the regs. NFPA 1123 in particular gives guidelines for setting up and discharging display fireworks. The check your state laws - some of them are downright weird (NH, I'm looking at you!!) Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) For a proper show: What kind of site layout do you have with proper setback distances? Permits to discharge 1.3g fireworks? Insurance in the event of an accident? Often this is a 1-2 million dollar policy. The AHJ will want to know how you aquired and transported said product. Likewise what is your contingeny should the show be cancelled? What ia your experience with setting up firework displays? Do you have any certs from shooter schools like the APA or PGI class? Indiana requires a shooter resume on file for the lead tech on a show, does your State have a similiar law? Likewise, Ohio actually requires a State license for all personell on a show. Does your State? The point being, before attempting to put up a proper show, get the proper experience. It is tricky enough with commercial product and depending on your State, it may be impossible to do legally with homemade product. If you are a member of a local guild, much of the hard part is already done. You couod work with the guild to put on a display at one of their meets. If not, my advice is to start shooting commercial displays with a company and get the experience before even thinking about building and shooting your own show. Edited March 12, 2014 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Nate, I agree with all you said. I'd just mention that a display may be covered by your homeowner's policy. My insurance company states that if it is strictly not commercial - meaning no money changes hands - and you are in compliance with the applicable laws, then the show is covered. YMMV I called them because I was concerned about losing my coverage if they became aware I manufactured fireworks, or if it could disqualify a claim. Much to my (and the agent's) surprise, the activities are covered under the conditions I mentioned. Of course, that means operating completely in the open, in full cooperation with the AHJs. Note that I am an unlicensed hobbyist - it's an interesting experience teaching the locals about the absurd intricacies of federal law. Also, the cost of my homeowner's insurance stayed the same, but my umbrella liability policy went up $75 a year <shrug>. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Kevin, you are proving your point about different state laws. Indiana requires separate insurance on a show, regardless if it is private or public. Proof of insurance is one of the requirements when the permit is issued and permits are required any time 1.3g product is discharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thanks for the great feedback guys! I have crewed a couple of professional display shows, but am not licensed or certified as of yet. I plan on getting my manufacturers license sometime this summer, then I suppose I would need to check out any state laws regarding certified shooting. Im not sure of the regulations in TX. How could I go about insuring a field? There really aren't any clubs in TX that are active enough to do anything. There are the fireants, but they are practically non-existent save for 1 or 2 times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The insurance required in Indiana is liability, typically it is purchased as a rider with the distributor you bought the product from. This is where it gets tricky with homemade pyro. A club should have their own insurance that covers their events. Texas law is different, so you would have to try and find some help there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think my best bet here is to get involved with some of the TX club guys if they are still around and figure out my best avenue. However, in terms of just putting up a full size show worth of homemade product on my own property, are there any restrictions in that respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You will have to check local laws. In Ohio, it would be impossible to do legally. In Indiana, you need all the permits and insurance as you would for a public display, even on your own property and without any exchange of money. Those are the only two states I shoot shows in on a routine basis and the laws I am most familiar with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 In Vermont, you need all the same permits as a commercial show, as well. You can't just go out in the back and start banging off display fireworks. I doubt there's anywhere in the country that is quite that lenient. Then there's the 'don't poop where you eat' issue, as well. Send up too much pyro at your home, and your neighbors will take an increasingly dim view of your activities. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well I live in an unincorporated County. And my "neighbors" (we have fields between us) seem to love Pyro. My closest neighbor comes over all the time asking me if I have anything ready to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 IMO you can make pyro for about ten times the cost of buying Chinese material -but there is the satisfaction of making a few good items. Don't even think of making a whole pro show of DIY material, it's not worth the time and money. HOWEVER a few special items will look great in a show of cheaper stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think my goal here is to know I made it all. although it would be interesting to see how much chinese product I could buy with my homemade pyro budget. I don't think it would be much cheaper if at all, as I don't have the capital to buy the volume required of chinese fireworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) In the UK, the ingredients for the compounds that make a shell cost more than buying the shell imported from China. Then there is the sub assembly making time (Stars, burst, lift, spoolette etc) then there is the assembly and pasting time to account for. Edited March 12, 2014 by Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think my goal here is to know I made it all. I get that, but a "whole show" can be a lot of shells. I shoot one show a year at my home, and make ~100 display shells (3-4") for the show. The rest of the show (575 shells + 40 or so cakes) are consumer fireworks. For my small venue they work well. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Wow. That's a significant increase in what I planned on making. If you don't mind me asking, what's a ballpark figure of the cost of the Chinese product? Is it 1.3g stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Like everything, it depends on the quality. $3-$5 for a 3" shell by the case, plan on the cost doubling every time you step up in size. When you get in to 6" shells and up, the cost starts to vary a ton if the shell is more fancy or a simple color shell. 1.3g cakes can be pricey but very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Wow. That's a significant increase in what I planned on making. If you don't mind me asking, what's a ballpark figure of the cost of the Chinese product? Is it 1.3g stuff? The Chinese product I use is either 1.4g consumer or 1.4g Pro (dominator & lidu). Cost runs around $2K a year. I pay wholesale prices through club group buys. I make all my display shells, lances, gerbs, etc... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Alright fellas. I have done some homework, got involved in the TX club and as of this 4th I will be signed off and will have both 1.3 and 1.4 licenses for TX. The ATF manufacturers license is coming down the pipe as well. The ATF license will legally allow me to shoot my stuff on my property. That also being said. I am going to shoot a rather small "100 shells" display at my property. Just 3s and 4s. After this show, I will have it out of my system to handbuild a display, and will also have access to buying 1.3 and 1.4 wholesale. The club guys have been very nice and have really helped me out by directing me where to go. They have even offered me to use their LLC insurance for my own purpose. Quite a lot happens when one gets involved in the pyro clubs and organizations. Now I gotta go to PGI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdercks Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) wow, that is so cool Tyron congrats for getting your license Edited June 27, 2014 by asdercks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Thanks. It's not here yet, but it will be shortly. It is gonna be nice to have credentials to show in case there ever was an incident of any kind. I highly recommend anyone over 21 to get theirs too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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