pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I really don't know if to open a new topic or to continue my olds... i choosen to start a new one as the other was particular to each whitstle chemical. this is more general (Admin felle free to join topic if you need) Well...just done other 3 tries with whistles... nothing worked. nothing. ingredientsPot.Perch airfloatNa Benz milled for 2 hours (airfloat + some cumbling granule)Red Iron Oxide from the painstore (i dont' know if it is synthetized or the original... but with sugar rocket it worked good.)Technical Vaseline grease (pure paraffine cream)Campgas fuel (for lighter). should replace the coleman fuel. attempt 1:75 Perch.25 NaBenz+1 red iron oxide.+4g Vaseline + 10g CampFuel mixed, made a dough with vaseline and campfuel (vaseline was ant enviroinment temperature, i've not heated it).i made grains trought a kitchen screen, leaved it to dry for 3 hours. rolled paper tube wit 1cm ID. HAND-pressed some gram into (leaved half tube empty) with bodyweight RESULT= no whistle. only a large energetic orange flame. attempt270 perch30 naBenz+1g vaseline+ campfuel enough to make a doughNO RED iron oxide. (i suspected it could be a fake) rolled tube as before...RESULT: energetic orange flame and an about imperceptible whistle... like you want to shut down birthday cake candles blowing and saying "heeeee" in the same moment... anyway not a result. attempt3:70 perch30 Na BenzNOTHING MORE.mixed for some minute, rolled and pressed as before Result: just like attempt2 with maybe some sound more... anyway the noise of the gasses (like a normal rocket) was really much higher...again... NO RESULT.... what it could be? i found a video on this forum of a WHISTLE TUTORIAL... my powder is a lot FINER and clean that the final powder shown in the video... it couldn't be a powder finess problem... i'm a lot discouraged... this is the 2rd year of experiments and no whistle... i start thinking i should change chem or supplier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Is your perc of known and high quality? Are you dissolving the vaseline in your solvent before mixing it in with the dry whistle mix? How are you mixing your whistle? I made a batch of sali whistle that was bad and I am pretty sure the problem was too much mineral oil by mistake. I also use 76/23 as the ratio of perc to fuel plus the catalyst and other parts. Edited October 20, 2012 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Is your perc of known and high quality?On the perc i have no doubt... i done many kind of stars and all resulted perfect... also a D1 glitter star (my first try) was wonderful!but i'm available to test it if there is some simple method to test the quality... Are you dissolving the vaseline in your solvent before mixing it in with the dry whistle mix?Yes, i first mixed vaseline + lighter-fuel, stirred, then added to the dry whistle mix. only i noticed that the lighter fuel didn't dissolved the vaseline... in the sense that i've stirred but the final mix was a fluid more liquid than vaseline and mor dense than the lighter fuel... not sure if there should be some chemical reaction between vaseline and fuel to work... i know that this are additive to reduce risks during the pressing... but the mix 70/30 should be able to whistle just pressed alone... I made a batch of sali whistle that was bad and I am pretty sure the problem was too much mineral oil by mistake. Just to solve my doubt about your problem i made the attempt3 ... no vaseline/lighterfuel used. i mixed the comp just as it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well, I am out of ideas then. My first tries with whistle worked well. What D-1 formula do you have that calls for perc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sorry, i was out of mind... in my D1 glitter i have Nitrate, not Perchlorate...anyway other like ruby red, emerald green etc worked like a charm Just for reference... this is a pic of the attempt 2... is that flame the RIGHT flame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Try using more pressure to consolidate it, somewhere around 4000 psi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 actually i have only my old jack-press without gauge. tomorrow i will make another 2 attempts with the same mix of attempt1 and attempt3 pressing it in the press until i see cracks on the paper...really can't understand why someone say that had success with simple hand-pressing... i think i will buy silicylate and other na-benz from another supplier to see if there is some difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 and this is the mix of attempt1bigger clumps are 1-2mm, but they are fragile... if i try to take it in my finger they become powder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Looks good. They are fragile, there is no binder to make them hard. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 OMG, OMG OMG my friends! something WORKED!! I taken the same mix of attempt1 and tried to press it with a little gum-hammer.yes i know this is very dangerous, but i had protection (facemask, gloves etc), done this in open air, only worked with 2g grams and never hold the tube in hand (i have a little wood dockstation for 10mm tubes) ... just rammed a few times...and yes... it WHISTLED!! FINALLY IT WHISTLED!! Since start of the flame! made a lot of smoke but whistled!! My friends i'm so happy! so the trick now is just the new gauged-press...obviously just this time i hadn't a camera with me... sigh! thanks much to you all for your help and support! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Congrats!If you weigh 34 stone (216 kg) you could hand press it to 4000psi..as long as you get both feet off the ground A vice or a big G-clamp would be much safer than the hammer, better still to wait until you have the press sorted out Edited October 20, 2012 by Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I've seen hand pressed, poor quality whistle scream. Pressure is probably not an issue. On the other hand, 3 hours is not really long enough for all the solvent to evaporate out. If you have solvent still in the fuel, making it sort of "wet" to say, it will not whistle very well. Try your other tests again, maybe your fuel just needed some extra drying time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 I've seen hand pressed, poor quality whistle scream. Pressure is probably not an issue. On the other hand, 3 hours is not really long enough for all the solvent to evaporate out. If you have solvent still in the fuel, making it sort of "wet" to say, it will not whistle very well. Try your other tests again, maybe your fuel just needed some extra drying time. yes... it maybe. yesterday when i pressed the mix it still smell(ed?) of lighter-fuel ...after your post, this morning, i leaved the mix at the open air under the sun... now it only smell of na-benz. this may mean that only NOW the lighter-fuel is fully eveporated ...today i will handpress another 100mm tube to test if yesterday the problem was the non fully dried mix. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I've seen hand pressed, poor quality whistle scream. Pressure is probably not an issue. On the other hand, 3 hours is not really long enough for all the solvent to evaporate out. If you have solvent still in the fuel, making it sort of "wet" to say, it will not whistle very well. Try your other tests again, maybe your fuel just needed some extra drying time. Three hours has been plenty for drying whistle for me in warm air outside. As soon as the gas smell is gone, its dry. -dag Edited October 21, 2012 by dagabu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Results of my last tests: 1) handpressed whistlemix dried +6 hours in open air under the sun. -> NO SOUND 2) same mix of 1) rammed 1g in 10mm tube ->WHISTLE SOUND! i have to say the whistle is not so loud... but it is definitely a whistle... i think it will be louder when pressed at 7500psi and louder when in a larget tube... What is the diameter of the whistle inserts in this video?http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/gallery/image/1201-4-whistling-serpent-mine/ My rammed test is not so loud like this (that have same diameter of mine): pressure will increase the sound power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I just mixed up 10g 76/23/1 sally whistle because I was curious if it would whistle. No Vaseline or anything... Free flowing perchlorate and superfine Sodium Salysicilate from hobbychem I think... It was mixed thoroughly! Rammed a small tube half full with it carefully with a wood dowel and earmuffs on then attached a rocket stick... It flew, but no whistle!?! Odd... Does sally whistle require the Vaseline to whistle? I have honestly never tried to get it to whistle... LoL! Just used it as a rocket fuel. Edited October 21, 2012 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I just mixed up 10g 76/23/1 sally whistle. No Vaseline or anything... Rammed a small tube half full with it carefully with a wood dowel and earmuffs on then attached a rocket stick... It flew, but no whistle!?! Odd... Does sally whistle require the Vaseline to whistle? I have honestly never tried to get it to whistle... LoL! Just used it as a rocket fuel. for what i've learned in all my reads and searches... vaseline is not needed to whistle. it is used to reduce mix sensitivity to friction (for pressing), to keep the dust down and to make it more compact when you press it ... and for some other scope now i don't remember. In my experiments i learned you need ultrafine (airfloat) chemicals (especially for na-benzoate). Vaseline and camp-fuel help in mixing also hard granules of na-benz and to better mix the red iron oxide because you can make a dough and mix it in your hands in a plastic bag (but then you need to WELL-dry it).When you ram the mix you should only go with 1g increments at time (also if you want more, put 1g, then ram, then add 1g etc). use hard tubes. Edited October 21, 2012 by pyrosailor99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I can only go off of the image you posted, but it doesn't look like your mix is as well mixed as it could be. Looking at the bigger granules I can clearly white specks. It could just be tricks from the camera. I've personally never been able to get whistle mix integrated well enough without screening it together, but others have been able to do it just kneeding the mixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Obviously, this is a different mix with a different use entirely, but it was mixed wet and kneaded in a bag. The whistle is quite loud, but not my goal for this comp. I use the same technique to mix standard sali whistle too. The catalyst gets screened with the perc until there are no white specs visible. I weigh this out in a freezer bag and acetone with mineral oil. Then I add the fuel which was sold as air milled and easily passed through a 50 mesh screen to break up any clumps. Then I knead the comp until it is a uniform color. I mix it fairly wet and usually have to open the bag and let it dry some before it can be granulated and dried. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-uP6C_oJDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well... I am sitting here scratching my head... I tested my sally whistle again... Carefully mixed up 5g in a mortar and pestle with a rounded wood dowel... Perfectly mixed. Rammed into a small tube with a plastic hammer... Nice burn, but no whistle... Argh... Could it be the airfloat cabo-sil in the perchlorate causing the problem? Salicylate Whistle MixKCLO4 76gSodium Salicylate 23gRed Iron Oxide 1g I WANT A WHISTLE... SOB!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You should really have the proper tools to prepare whistle safely. IE - a press. I use a 1 ton arbor press for 1/4" bottle rockets and they still whistle. These little presses are cheap at Harbor Freight. When working with pyro, if you can't do something right you shouldn't do it all. Get the right tools or quit working with this until you do. No need to mix it with a mortar and pestle either, screening or baggy mixing are the typical ways whistle is made, so the problem lies elsewhere in your process. Does your whistle mix whistle when pressed at proper pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The only thing I have found that messes up the whistle sound, is the whistle fuel not being fine enough, or to a lesser extent, not all the solvent being evaporated. The biggest problem I had is not having the fuel fine enough. That is why I won't buy anything but airfloat chems in the future. I bought flakes the first time and nothing I have done has got it fine enough to whistle. This has been with both types of benzoates. I bought some potassium Benz to make cu benz and tried to see if it was easier to grind and it wasn't. I don't know how people buy big bags of flakes and get it to work but I haven't found a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 For a buck a pound, there are a few that will hammer mill it for you. Saves a few bucks a pound. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 For a buck a pound, there are a few that will hammer mill it for you. Saves a few bucks a pound. -dag Is that he only way to deal with sali flakes without pulling your hair out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Pretty much. Firebird can hammermill it for you too. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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