THEONE Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I was thinking if it is possible to make this type of propellant, has anybody try - think it before ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boule Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Thought about it when considering cast propellants. In short, NC lacquer is pretty much oxygen balanced and you would still end up having to use a fuel for the KNO3 and all you end up with is a black powder rocket that is bound by NC instead of being pressed. Given that NC is a medicore gas generator at best and BP just blowing chunks you end up needing one hell of a core in order to get it to lift. So the result would be a BP-rocket that is performing as if you built it with greenmix. Alternative fuels would pretty much include all sugars and then you just have a watered-down version of rocket candy.....There are other KN-based propellants (RNX - see nakka rocketry) which end up as a workable solution with different fuels but rely heavily on catalysts to acieve the desired burn rate. Considering the possibilities, an NC bound BP rocket is not very likely to be much use in lifting payloads but it might be a fun concept just to make one. Feel free to follow it further! Edited July 17, 2012 by boule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 So the NC lacquer CAN de used as a blinder for a rocket propellant correct ? I saw in the Guipep that the more NC the more Isp has... So i was thinking if there is a way to make a NC based rocket fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 One more idea, in a previous topic i ask if there is any way to cast the ammonpulver propellant (85/15 AN /Charcoal) and they told me that there is no way to cast this propellant, only press it. So it is impossible to cast this propellant with NC lacquer to make some grains ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkdc1 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 One more idea, in a previous topic i ask if there is any way to cast the ammonpulver propellant (85/15 AN /Charcoal) and they told me that there is no way to cast this propellant, only press it. So it is impossible to cast this propellant with NC lacquer to make some grains ? I I read somewhere that AN is slightly soluble in acetone, this may be the way to go as AN is so hygroscopic you wouldn't want to add any water to the mix. Let us know how it goes if you have all of the equipment to make a motor this way it would definitely be interesting, especially if you could get a relatively high ISP with just a cardboard tube and clay nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Ammonpulver is hardly a burnable comp, you might try to burn some before trying to make rockets out of random HE comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I have found that a very good catalyst in AN - Charcoal comp is Cuo so i if you give a try, something good will be done... Something else, when the acetone evaporates from NC lacquer, does it leave air bubbles.... ?(Yes AN is soluble in acetone...) I I read somewhere that AN is slightly soluble in acetone, this may be the way to go as AN is so hygroscopic you wouldn't want to add any water to the mix. Let us know how it goes if you have all of the equipment to make a motor this way it would definitely be interesting, especially if you could get a relatively high ISP with just a cardboard tube and clay nozzle. According to the Guipep a 85/15 AN/C comp has an isp of 210, not really bad... Edited July 17, 2012 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boule Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 So the NC lacquer CAN de used as a blinder for a rocket propellant correct ? I saw in the Guipep that the more NC the more Isp has... So i was thinking if there is a way to make a NC based rocket fuel... Again, we are talking theory here since there is no current amateur rocketry or pyro fuel that is based on NC. There might be a chance that the fuel will work but NC interferes a lot with burn characteristics and there is a good chance that the fuel is going to be less reactive than the original formulation. Additionally, evaporating acetone or MEK can create cavities which then lead to quite spectacular CATOs. To get anything out of an NC propellant, you would need a much more energetic fuel than what you get from BP. One more idea, in a previous topic i ask if there is any way to cast the ammonpulver propellant (85/15 AN /Charcoal) and they told me that there is no way to cast this propellant, only press it. So it is impossible to cast this propellant with NC lacquer to make some grains ? Well, it is certainly possible to cast ammonpulver into grains using NC but the question is just what you will accomplish by this. The original comp is already extremely slow burning and by binding it with NC, you are just going to make it slower. Might be a nice way to create flares, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't trust NC to hold its integrity... I mean NC lacquer shrinks as it dries, and it will continue to shrink as time goes on... especially larger mass such as rocket propellants. Everything made from celluloid pretty much shrinks after a few years, and it still shrinks 40 years later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I don't trust NC to hold its integrity... I mean NC lacquer shrinks as it dries, and it will continue to shrink as time goes on... especially larger mass such as rocket propellants. Everything made from celluloid pretty much shrinks after a few years, and it still shrinks 40 years later! Are you sure ? If it is going to be happened something like this then also the ping pong balls and smokeless powder will also be shrinking correct ? Edited July 17, 2012 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I don't know about pingpong balls, but I do know (from guitar work) that Fender pickguards and guitar bindings (which is made from celluloid) does shrink over the years. You won't notice it over the course of a month or so but after several years, it will shrink enough to distort its shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 I am not planning to store a rocket motor over a yearExcept that there is no way to prevent that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) I found in wikipedia that the nitrocellulose is used as a rocket propellant and there is a rocket called M13 that is used nitrocellulose for propellant...So surely there is a way to use it as propellant even thew it shrinks Edited July 24, 2012 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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