Best Blue star Composition?!?!

[Brandonp213]

 

OK, here are some. This one was suggested by the Master himself, Dr. Shimizu:

 

Ammonium perchlorate 75

Paris Green 15

Shellac 10

 

This one I recently posted in another thread, Pihko AP #4:

 

Ammonium perchlorate 60

Copper(II)oxide 20

Sulfur 17

Red gum 6

 

This one is the famous New Blue from David Bleser:

 

Ammonium perchlorate 82

Copper benzoate 18

[Brandonp213]

Is the shimizu formula pressed without a solvent and is there a way to make cut or rolled from this

[cmjlab]

You have to add some solvent regardless of how you consolidate (solvent being water, alcohol, acetone, etc).

 

The Shimizu formula you quoted has Shellac, so my guess is it's dissolved in Ethyl or Denatured Alcohol, then added to the formula. How you plan to consolidate will dictate how much to add, but yes you can make cut stars or pressed stars. I don't make many rolled stars so I won't bother giving any input on that method, but I imagine it would work too, it would just be a bigger pain to clean up after since you'd have to use alcohol or acetone for clean up.

 

Cut Stars you can be more liberal with how much solvent binder you add (solvent added until a workable putty is formed to be rolled out and cut), I'd start with 12% - 15% weight/weight to start with. The alcohol binding I've used goes from dry as shit to kids goopy slime consistency quick.

 

Pumped stars with Alcohol and Shellac are not something I have used often, because Shellac doest dissolve all that easily in denatured alcohol for me. I've had to heat the alcohol in a double burner to get it to fully dissolve. Depending on how much pressure you're using to press stars, I'd start out with less (like 3%), screen it in, and let it sit for an hour in a sealed container to fully dampen and mix in with the comp before pressing. If your stars don't consolidate well, or the comp is to dry, you could add 1-2% more incrementally until the right consistency is achieved.

 

Good luck!

Edited March 26, 2023 by cmjlab

[nordicwolf]

What binder would be used for New Blue (David Blesser)? NC lacquer perhaps? No binder/solvent is specified in the AP 82, Copper Benzoate 18 formula.

[Carbon796]

N/C is the specified binder for Bleser's New Blue. @ 1.5 % for pressing, iirc.

 

Though sgrs works well also. And was preferable to me. For ease of processing/clean up/star strength. And, also the ability to cut them.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Carbon796

[nordicwolf]

How big did you cut the stars? I read that some blue comps do better when the stars are small.

 

I have a 3/16 plate for pressing, but I also do some screen cutting. This is for fountains not shells. Thanks.

[SharkWhisperer]

Is the shimizu formula pressed without a solvent and is there a way to make cut or rolled from this

Shellac dissolves in alcohol or acetone.

 

You really opting to work with arsenic (Paris Green) when you have other options? You do realize this thread has been asleep for 11 years? Nobody I know works with arsenic or would consider it necessary.

[justvisiting]

Regarding Bleser's New Blue: In the original article he says he used 1% NC in acetone. In a followup article he said "I routinely make them with 3-4% dextrin added to the composition."

[Arthur]

I see no problem with having several comps for each effect, especially when ingredient availability and incompatibilities may have their inputs.

[nordicwolf]

Where can one purchase Copper Benzoate? FWCB is out of stock, and pyrochemsource does not show it as an option.

 

or is the only way to get any is to make your own as explained by Kosanke?

 

http://www.jpyro2.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Kos-164-166.pdf

 

I would rather purchase if possible, but it might be interesting to try making some. Thanks.

[Arthur]

Looking round obvious(to me) sources. Copper carbonate is available in USA and Benzoic acid (as a food preservative) may well be. so the Kosanke synthesis may be useful. Copper Benzoate does seem to be rare, and expensive.

[Powderman]

Another way of preparation is from CuSO4 and potassium benzoate. Sodium benzoate is more common and cheaper and can be used if product is washed properly after filtration.

[Mumbles]

I can speak from experience that the resulting sodium sulfate is extremely difficult to wash out if using sodium benzoate. Copper benzoate tends to come out as an extremely fine powder, and its just hard to get all the sodium removed.

 

Most pyro chemicals are sourced from supplies of chemicals with a much more substantial demand. Copper benzoate just doesn't have a lot of other uses, so it can be hard to come by and expensive. There are occasional supplies of it, but a lot of people resort to making it.

[Sulphurstan]

In the AP and CuBenzo mix, adding hexamine helps to produce gas, and thus to lower the flame temp, giving a better hue. I made some tests a few years ago with and without the hexamine, and there was a difference. If interested, I can share the formula. Edited May 2, 2023 by Sulphurstan

[Mumbles]

Absolutely. We'd love to hear what you've worked on. Hexamine has an additional benefit of expanding the flame envelope due to the gas evolution. This is how it keeps things cooler. AP stars are notorious for having relatively small flame envelopes and appearing rather dim in comparison to other compositions.

[nordicwolf]

I second this - @Sulphurstan please share your formula! thanks!

[Sulphurstan]

Ok I'll make some archeological (grin) search in my notes and files from the last 3 years and send that this weekend in this thread. Edited May 4, 2023 by Sulphurstan

[nordicwolf]

Hopefully @Sulphurstan can post his formula for his blue.

 

Meanwhile, I found this post on the Skylighter website. Can anyone suggest what is used for "copper" in the formula?

Copper Oxychloride? Copper Carbonate? Copper Oxide Black? Copper Oxide Red? Something else? Thank you!

 

 

Blue Fireworks Stars: Attributed to Shimizu

Potassium perchlorate 75.1% Red Gum 11.5% Copper 9.6% Parlon 3.8% SGRS (rice starch) +5%

[Crazy Swede]

@nordicwolf, copper powder is used of course!

[Sulphurstan]

So 4 years ago or so, I was trying to improve the blue compositions I had in the books, with a little research and readings in the litterature.

I want to thank Richard from the UK forum: he was quite a help and gave me a lot of advices and chemical explanations (temperature of flame, gas enveloppe etc...)

 

I built a spectrometer (sadly I bought an el cheapo camera, and the results are not very accurate ..), and then goofed around with Theremino and Excel to put the recorded burn tests on a CIE color chart.

 

The Na peak you can see on the spectrogram in the attached pdf files is because the Cu Benzo was home made from Na Benzo, and the washing after precipitation was not the best ever made.

With a clean product, without Na, the results shall have been even better.

 

The Hexamine is improving things: comp 18 is more toward the blue area than comp 11.

Due to poor camera, the absolute position on the CIE chart are probably not right and accurate, but I was happy to see the shift toward the blue area with the Hexamine composition 18.

Burn tests were made 6 times each, with good repeatability in the spectrograms.

 

Compositions:

 

APCUB11

AP 63

Cu Benzo 23

CuO 4

NC Lacquer 10

Prime: Pinball

APCUB11_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

APCUB18

AP 63

Cu Benzo 19

CuO 4

Hexamine 10

NC Lacquer 10

(total is 106)

Prime: Pinball

APCUB18_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Sulphurstan

[Zumber]

So 4 years ago or so, I was trying to improve the blue compositions I had in the books, with a little research and readings in the litterature.

I want to thank Richard from the UK forum: he was quite a help and gave me a lot of advices and chemical explanations (temperature of flame, gas enveloppe etc...)

 

I built a spectrometer (sadly I bought an el cheapo camera, and the results are not very accurate ..), and then goofed around with Theremino and Excel to put the recorded burn tests on a CIE color chart.

 

The Na peak you can see on the spectrogram in the attached pdf files is because the Cu Benzo was home made from Na Benzo, and the washing after precipitation was not the best ever made.

With a clean product, without Na, the results shall have been even better.

 

The Hexamine is improving things: comp 18 is more toward the blue area than comp 11.

Due to poor camera, the absolute position on the CIE chart are probably not right and accurate, but I was happy to see the shift toward the blue area with the Hexamine composition 18.

Burn tests were made 6 times each, with good repeatability in the spectrograms.

 

Compositions:

 

APCUB11

AP 63

Cu Benzo 23

CuO 4

NC Lacquer 10

Prime: Pinball

apcub11.mp4

APCUB11_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

APCUB18

AP 63

Cu Benzo 19

CuO 4

Hexamine 10

NC Lacquer 10

(total is 106)

Prime: Pinball

apcub18.mp4

APCUB18_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

I love second one much.but both are very pretty...!!

Can AP be substited? With what?

[Crazy Swede]

So 4 years ago or so, I was trying to improve the blue compositions...

 

Compositions:

 

APCUB11

AP 63

Cu Benzo 23

CuO 4

NC Lacquer 10

Prime: Pinball

apcub11.mp4

APCUB11_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

APCUB18

AP 63

Cu Benzo 19

CuO 4

Hexamine 10

NC Lacquer 10

(total is 106)

Prime: Pinball

apcub18.mp4

APCUB18_SPECTR_2_CIE.pdf

 

 

 

 

Sulphurstan,

was the reason of adding copper(II) oxide to the composition to compensate for the poor amount of copper in copper benzoate?

 

That was a problem I had, way back when, when I tried to find the blue star Holy Grail.

[Sulphurstan]

I also made some spectrograms with replacing AP by KP + adding parlon, but there weren't that much towards blue, the flame was probably too hot.

AP decomposes only in gas products, which kinda absorb the heat, whereas KP decomposes also in solid, which seems to make it hotter (???) I think some of the more experienced guys here could explain that.

 

 

Regarding adding CuO, it was a test&try, beginning without CuO, and then adding more and more, until I found what I estimate the 'peak in blue hue'... Not a very scientific approach (stoechiomeyry, enthalpy and all that concepts being far too tough for me here), it was more an experimental approach with measurements of the hue, to explore back and forth...

Edited June 3, 2023 by Sulphurstan

[skysparkler]

CuSCN + AP Burn bright and fast and have good color

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwTGhrtqn-q/

Edited August 23, 2023 by skysparkler