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Best Blue star Composition?!?!


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#1 alexpyro101

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:35 PM

I'm looking for a suitable blue star composition, it can be cut, or pumped. I'm also a big fan of the parlon bound screen-sliced stars. Right now i have only tried one blue composition as i'm awaiting the completion of my star plate. if anybody has a few good comps I'd be grateful if you shared them.

I tried skylighter's blue rubber star(also i didn't have lactose so i substituted with sugar) the blue looks bad: slow burning, blows blind in hard breaks, and it's more lavender colored.

I don't have ammonium perchlorate, just some average chemicals like potassium perchlorate, copper carbonate, copper oxide black, sulfur, charcoal, red gum, dextrin, etc.

Thank you for any replies Posted Image, I'm still trying to test mixes for the 4th of july, I don;t think I'm even going to be able to get any really nice shells ready Posted Image
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#2 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:04 AM

This has been debated over and over again, but Pihko KP Blue #2 is a favourite among many, if you are looking for a KP blue:

Potassium perchlorate 63
Black copper oxide 13
Parlon 14
Red gum 10

It can be bound with the parlon or with 4 or 5 additional parts of dextrin.

Or my own with a little touch of magnesium. It's originally intended for potassium chlorate, but the colour will be almost as good with perchlorate:

Potassium perchlorate 58
Black copper oxide 15
Parlon 15
Red gum 9
Magnesium <63µm 3

Edited by Potassiumchlorate, 21 June 2012 - 01:21 AM.

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#3 dan999ification

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:53 AM

veline blue, some say its washed out but i like it, i cut veline with acetone and roll it with water.



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#4 Dean411

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:49 PM

Edit: saw your still waiting on your star plate but most of my info still applies.


Alex,
Don't think you can't make nice shells in time for the holiday . There are many ways to make stars that dry quickly.
You may not be able to make cut charcoal stars before the fourth (unless you have a star drying box) but some alternatives are parlon with acetone dry in a few hours, also NC Lacquer stars dry quite fast and another that I use a lot is red gum with either denatured alcohol or 99% isopropyl alcohol these will usually dry overnight. I have.rolled them primed an hour later in the evening and in the morning there hard and don't blow blind. I know you didn't say you roll them but pumping should work just as well. Keep the faith. Also phiko #2 kP is a decent blue. There is also a nice blue that mumbles uses which I believe is called Pyro science blue and I think the composition is close to that of phiko. If you pump charcoal comps and there mixed correctly they should be dry in about 72 hours.

Edited by Dean411, 21 June 2012 - 06:55 PM.

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#5 Mumbles

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:23 PM

Yep, I like it. They are fairly similar (pyroscience formula below). The percentages are rather odd because it's a commercial formula converted to percentages. Shimizu's B70 is also nice.

Potassium Perchlorate 66.1
Copper Oxide 13.4
Parlon 10.7
Red Gum 9.8
Dextrin 5

Total 105
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#6 marks265

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:05 AM

Yep, I like it. They are fairly similar (pyroscience formula below). The percentages are rather odd because it's a commercial formula converted to percentages. Shimizu's B70 is also nice.

Potassium Perchlorate 66.1
Copper Oxide 13.4
Parlon 10.7
Red Gum 9.8
Dextrin 5

Total 105


I have always known this formula as Takeo Shimizu blue KP2.

#7 Mumbles

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:11 AM

I never noticed how similar Shimizu's formula at the one I have above are. The formula I have for Shimizu's KP #2 blue has about 5 parts less parlon in it, which is probably why the color was never as good for me.

Shimizu's looks more like a chlorate formula that they just subbed in perchlorate for 1:1.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#8 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:17 AM

There should be an abundance of chlorine, even in potassium chlorate blues. Hardt Blue #2 is a good example:

Potassium chlorate 62
Black copper oxide 13
Parlon 11
Red gum 9
Dextrin 5

Unless it is an AP composition it should also be 7-14% total copper in it. This has about 10.4%.
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental fire-works." Dr. James Cutbush

Conflo, ergo sum

#9 marks265

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:13 PM

I never noticed how similar Shimizu's formula at the one I have above are. The formula I have for Shimizu's KP #2 blue has about 5 parts less parlon in it, which is probably why the color was never as good for me.

Shimizu's looks more like a chlorate formula that they just subbed in perchlorate for 1:1.


Something to play with for this would be to use saran. Especially in light of recent conversations weighing it against parlon it seems. Just another can of worms I don't need right nowPosted Image Anyway it just seems like another knock off formula with a minor adjust that goes a long way. I have your formula but have not tried it as of yet. Too many chems in the fire once again!Posted Image

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#10 Mumbles

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 03:11 AM

It was only reading that conversation that I realized I've had the same ideas. I don't ever bind with acetone and parlon so that part is not an issue to me. I've made a few star formulas by accident with about 50:50 saran to parlon (ran out of parlon), and liked them much better. The one I was playing with in this regard was Yankie purple. I actually liked it much better with the mixture. They burn so cleanly. I like saran better to begin with, so it just makes me like these formulas more.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#11 alexpyro101

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

This has been debated over and over again, but Pihko KP Blue #2 is a favourite among many, if you are looking for a KP blue:

Potassium perchlorate 63
Black copper oxide 13
Parlon 14
Red gum 10

It can be bound with the parlon or with 4 or 5 additional parts of dextrin.

Or my own with a little touch of magnesium. It's originally intended for potassium chlorate, but the colour will be almost as good with perchlorate:

Potassium perchlorate 58
Black copper oxide 15
Parlon 15
Red gum 9
Magnesium <63Ám 3


Thankyou, I'll be sure to try them
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#12 alexpyro101

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:39 PM

Edit: saw your still waiting on your star plate but most of my info still applies.


Alex,
Don't think you can't make nice shells in time for the holiday . There are many ways to make stars that dry quickly.
You may not be able to make cut charcoal stars before the fourth (unless you have a star drying box) but some alternatives are parlon with acetone dry in a few hours, also NC Lacquer stars dry quite fast and another that I use a lot is red gum with either denatured alcohol or 99% isopropyl alcohol these will usually dry overnight. I have.rolled them primed an hour later in the evening and in the morning there hard and don't blow blind. I know you didn't say you roll them but pumping should work just as well. Keep the faith. Also phiko #2 kP is a decent blue. There is also a nice blue that mumbles uses which I believe is called Pyro science blue and I think the composition is close to that of phiko. If you pump charcoal comps and there mixed correctly they should be dry in about 72 hours.


Last year i made brilliant red and green stars (parlon bound and cut with acetone), and I'm a big fan of those, especially the quick drying time. I'll try phikoblue #2
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#13 alexpyro101

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:42 PM

Thankyou for all the quick repliess guys, looks like i have some new mixes to try :)
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#14 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

Couldn't one of the admins merge all the threads about blue stars?

I have another composition, by the way, one from Hardt:

Potassium chlorate 62
Copper(II)oxide 13
Parlon 11
Red gum 9
Dextrin 5

It has unusually much parlon for a potassium chlorate star, though it also has a large flame envelope and a bright flame :)
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental fire-works." Dr. James Cutbush

Conflo, ergo sum

#15 spitfire

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:26 AM

Funny to see that most people are looking for good blue's without AP, while i am looking for good blue's with AP...
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#16 Potassiumchlorate

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Funny to see that most people are looking for good blue's without AP, while i am looking for good blue's with AP...


OK, here are some. This one was suggested by the Master himself, Dr. Shimizu:

Ammonium perchlorate 75
Paris Green 15
Shellac 10

This one I recently posted in another thread, Pihko AP #4:

Ammonium perchlorate 60
Copper(II)oxide 20
Sulfur 17
Red gum 6

This one is the famous New Blue from David Bleser:

Ammonium perchlorate 82
Copper benzoate 18

Edited by Potassiumchlorate, 06 November 2012 - 12:15 PM.

"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental fire-works." Dr. James Cutbush

Conflo, ergo sum

#17 AirCowPeacock

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

That Shimizu blue looks pretty slick, so does the Bleser.

#18 marks265

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

Funny to see that most people are looking for good blue's without AP, while i am looking for good blue's with AP...


I'm with you on this one. Let's just say I had really big plans for an AP blue but I ran out of time for a competition deadline.

#19 marks265

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Couldn't one of the admins merge all the threads about blue stars?


Digging a little deeper here, but this one just kills me. I think keeping like things in one thread is a great idea, but I also think that the poster should do so properly. I'll go out on a limb here and say that I really don't think the Mods have time to straighten out everyones messes. Be proactive and jump in their turds if ya see somethin" :D I'll laugh with ya not against ya!

Maybe we can have a banner that scrolls at log in "Hey dumb ass No repeat threads" Ya I like that to! :o

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#20 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

Bill Ofca's royal blue is quite good, burns fast, but does lack a bit of brightness.... It uses a mix of potassium chlorate and perchlorate as the primary oxidizer which Bill says is safer than just chlorate alone, but I've used just chlorate and it doesn't seem all that sensitive to shock or friction. Like all chlorate composition it is flame sensitive.

Veline is said to be washed out but when viewed from a distance it is acceptable, and it's brighter too.




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