fred815 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has anyone out here seen or used one. Looks real convienent. Are these used for mainly "Dump headings"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I have attempted to make the inverted cone type headers that the wolter formers make. I use them for traditional dump type headers, but would like to experiment with harder breaks to see whay i can come up with. Those type of headers, which were common on british rockets are what i have always pictured when i think of a fireworks rocket. i started a thread about it somewhere, i will try to link it. I still want to come up with a good former for these headers, without needing a lathe, but i havent found the perfect cones in a craft store yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 There was also an article by Kurt Medlin in an older pgi bulletin about these headers and wolters formers, but it is out of print and i have not been able to find one to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'll check when I get home but I think that article is reprinted in the Anthology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'll check when I get home but I think that article is reprinted in the Anthology. He has a very informative article about color to report rockets in the Anthology. It includes a picture of his header, and a diagram how he makes the shell part of it. The article about the formers and how he makes the header case did not make it in the Anthology. Someone told me they will introduce me to him at the convention and that he'd probably answer all my questions there. Here is the thread I started on the subject, I got some good answers there: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/6392-rocket-nosecones/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Has anyone out here seen or used one. Looks real convienent. Are these used for mainly "Dump headings"? Yes, they are mostly for dump headings but the use of a flash bag can create pleasingly round breaks. My formers and a quick casing: -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have attempted to make the inverted cone type headers that the wolter formers make. I use them for traditional dump type headers, but would like to experiment with harder breaks to see whay i can come up with. Those type of headers, which were common on british rockets are what i have always pictured when i think of a fireworks rocket. i started a thread about it somewhere, i will try to link it. I still want to come up with a good former for these headers, without needing a lathe, but i havent found the perfect cones in a craft store yet. When a round break is desired, use a plastic bag with 2 grams of flash with a cannula (4 turns of #70 kraft) running to the center, filled with black match or fast paper fuse leading from the rocket. Put that bag inside another bag that is filled with easily lit stars with small pulverone filling the spaces between stars. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have a wood lathe Nate, send me some info on what it is you are wanting and maybe I can do something for you.I admit right now, I am not all that good with it yet but any sort of project give me reason to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wolter's stuff seems expensive but of high quality. As far as I've understood, he can even deliever to Europe, though you have to tell him to mark the package "gift" to avoid the import tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Wolter's stuff seems expensive but of high quality. As far as I've understood, he can even deliever to Europe, though you have to tell him to mark the package "gift" to avoid the import tax. I am not sure he will mark things that way for you. I thought I read that in his FAQ but I may be wrong so check for yourselves.Rich makes some very, very well made tools. No doubt about it but I sometimes I too feel there is a bit of overcharge going on.He seems to go overboard on some tools and others are priced just right. Some tools are only made by him so f you want one, he is it.UNLESS you can make them yourself or know someone who can do them for you... For instance, I have long wanted one of those Quad-Pumps, the comet pump that makes a star by pumping four quadrants that you paste together to form one large comet with a hole in the middle of it. This can allow you to make some pretty cool effects, like a crossette that blows into four different colors or any number of things that you dream up. However he wants too darn much money for them and he only ever has one or two in stock so thy are gone long before I see them or can save up for one. Now he has told me they are going the way of the do-do since he doesn't make the bottom plate for them as he doesn't have the right kind of machine to make them properly and the guy who has been making them for him has gotten too flakey to deal with anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I have a wood lathe Nate, send me some info on what it is you are wanting and maybe I can do something for you.I admit right now, I am not all that good with it yet but any sort of project give me reason to practice. If you want the practice, I'm sure we can come up with something. I like the way Dag made his formers in 2 pieces. The single piece that was posted in my original thread sure looked pretty, but I think 2 would be much easier. The first big question, is what dimensions are the best? When I made my cone templates, I was just winging it and roughed the size based on 2.5 inch cylinder shell which I think a 1 pound BP rocket should be able to lift. I admit, I was going more on what looked right to me more than theory. Like I said, these header designs are what I always imagined a stick rocket to look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starseeker Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Wolter's stuff seems expensive but of high quality. As far as I've understood, he can even deliever to Europe, though you have to tell him to mark the package "gift" to avoid the import tax. Uncle Wolter has been very kind to me over the years,sending me some smashing gifts to the uk with a lovely letter letting me know how he is getting on, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I finally found where I had seen this two piece design before. The reference I found was from Kentish. It's a book not too many have. It's more for historical reference than anything, but still a good read and not too expensive. http://www.fireworksnews.com/product/21/2 It's on page 43 if you happen to have it. There isn't a lot of detailed info. Going off of the pictures and other details I've found in other sources and pictures, it seems that the headers are typically about 1/2 to 2/3 as long as the casing. For Kentish, they use 8x ID tubes instead of the 10x we tend to use now. The paper used to roll the top half is a full circle, cut it to the center and roll it on the former or into a cone paste side out. A second piece of paper is placed over the top, this time pasted side in and allowed to dry. The bottom half seems to not have as much info on it. It appears that the paper is a 120 degree segment. It's made in dimensions so that the hole where it connects with the rocket is smaller than the OD of the tube. The bottom is slit open into flaps and slid over the tube and the flaps can be used to adhere the header to the rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks Mumbles, I might order that book, I enjoy reading about some of the historical devices. The cone templates I made are pretty much as you described, I will adjust them to make the hole at the bottom a bit smaller and see if that makes attaching the headers any easier. On passfire, Steve LaDuke warned me that this design is hard to keep perfectly aligned and with fast motors you can easily break the stick. His recommendation was using slower launches and warning people on the rocket line about errant flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks Mumbles, I might order that book, I enjoy reading about some of the historical devices. The cone templates I made are pretty much as you described, I will adjust them to make the hole at the bottom a bit smaller and see if that makes attaching the headers any easier. On passfire, Steve LaDuke warned me that this design is hard to keep perfectly aligned and with fast motors you can easily break the stick. His recommendation was using slower launches and warning people on the rocket line about errant flights. SLD is full of beans! I launched a dozen #3 whistle motors with these dump shells on top without a single mishap. The key is to do as Mum pointed out, make the shells substantial and pleat the joint so that they are well attached. Alignment is easy with a jig made from plywood with the holes bored into them so that the cones can only fit if aligned correctly. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Dag, I wouldnt go as far as saying he is full of beans. He was stressing the importance of making sure the alignment was spot on or else be prepared for mishaps. I think pleating the joint between the header and the motor was the step I could not picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It's OK, I'm friends with Steve, I can call him full of beans after working with him in his shop and having him drop a F-bomb right in front of me. If it wasn't beans it was a dead rat. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm sure it's alright. I'm just stressing something that he felt was important enough to point out to me last fall. The last thing I want to to do is hurt someone during open shooting. As funny as it would be (if nobody got hurt) I'd hate to interrupt the C guys with a rocket flying perpendicular to the ground through their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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