Potassiumchlorate Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It might be the best for blue colours after all. I just have a very small sample, but this is about half an 8mm star made with it burning on the ground. Composition; Lancaster Blue Pillbox #1: Potassium chlorate 70Paris Green 20Shellac 10 The colour was just as deep and intense to the eye as it looks in the video. Paris Green 001.AVI Edited February 9, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It might be the best for blue colours after all. I just have a very small sample, but this is about half an 8mm star made with it burning on the ground. Composition; Lancaster Blue Pillbox #1: Potassium chlorate 70Paris Green 20Shellac 10 The colour was just as deep and intense to the eye as it looks in the video. wasnt bad but it looked like it whited out or maybe the cam did it.Also try copper powder for deep rich blue good job mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Up close means nothing. The only way to really judge a star is in the air. I see this all the time. People are on the quest for the "perfect color", using exotic reagents, etc. More often than not they are just wasting their time because it can't be seen at any real distance, it's color loses depth, or it wont stay lit while moving. I'm not saying your star will suffer from those faults. It appears to be bright enough. The others will remain to be seen, though it does seem to burn quite fast which is good as far as staying lit goes. I have to say though, looks to be a bit too sky-blue for my preferences. It looks like it may be getting a bit washed out. That could just be camera of proximity though. That lancaster formula is known to be quite good. I've seen paris green formulas before, and have been overall less than impressed for the most part. Perhaps the hype is already too high. They were good, but I didn't find them as superior as many claim. Most of the ones I've seen, like the Lancaster formula you mention, feel they don't need external chlorine donors. I think that is a big mistake. There were two blue star competitions done here in the US. One by a gentleman in Minnesota at an NLP event (I think), and one in Florida at a FPAG event. In both cases a perchlorate based blue star won, beating the chlorate/PG ones. I have however seen two PG formulas that were absolutely gorgeous. Not surprisingly they both contained external chlorine donors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, I know that I have to test them in the air. Couldn't resist to test a not completely dry star on the ground right away, though. I have a few more, that aren't completely dry yet. Will test them later. I must say that I like the simplicity as well, though. Just three chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabuse00 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 These Paris Green and most other chlorate formulas are very old. Maybe they simply didn't have suitable chlorine donors apart from the chlorate itself back then. PVC for example was not mass produced before around 1940. And today cheap perchlorate is available, so most modern formulae are perchlorate based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningRNX Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 blue comparisson.wmv 1 Pihko blue2 Jennings white AP3 KClO4 based star It mostly depends on your camera.Best thing you can do is send me some of your PG so I can compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The first generation of paris green stars were made without chlorine donors. However by the 60's chlorine donors were well established, and PG was still in use in american manufacture at least. The stars I saw were likely exhibition stars, and were being made well into the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 It was used by one professional pyrotechnician in Denmark as late as the 90's too. Don't remember his name now. Other than that I think it was abandoned earlier here in Europe than in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've made that formula (Lancaster Blue #1) and thought it was a nice clear blue, but a bit pale - sky blue. I haven't tried it with added chlorine, maybe I will this weekend. The trouble is, a deeper blue is less bright. I saw some awesome blues in the commercial display at WWB last year, deeply saturated and shading almost to indigo, but they had to be alone in the sky or you would hardly notice them. I think organic fueled blues in general are quite dim compared to other stars, particularly metallic fueled ones, and don't mix well with other colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yes, organic blue stars should be fired alone or at least not together with metallic fueled colours. Maybe one could add just a few percent of strontium carbonate to get an almost indigo colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Hm, not very impressive in the air. It looked a little bit better to the eye, but not much. ParisGreentest 001.AVI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Hm, not very impressive in the air. It looked a little bit better to the eye, but not much. thtas the only way to test your stars people keep burning shit sitting five feet away and think coming out from a shell it will look the same.I mean a star gun is so easy to make to test.I do test dry comp before I waste wetting and can pretty much tell or get an idea but only make three or four grams till i shoot it in the air then make up 500 or 600 grams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's late morning here now. I tested it in my stargun again in a bit dim daylight (didn't film it, though). The colour is really deep, towards indigo.I guess it would look much better with lots of them in a shell than a single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) It looks a bit better here. Maybe I should try ammonium perchlorate instead? Dr. Shimizu suggested: Ammonium perchlorate 75Paris Green 15Shellac 10 I have tried: Ammonium perchlorate 70Paris Green 15Hexamine 15 but only as a loose powder. With NC-lacquer or shellac as a binder that might be one of the best blues ever. ParisGreentest2 001.AVI Edited February 16, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 IF I get a chance to make any shells this summer I will make up a batch of my favorite PG Blue stars and put them in at least a 3" shell. While a star gun works somewhat to give you an idea of what you will get, until you load up a shell and hire it off, you are just burning stars IMO. The only real way to get a loot at the way a star will perform is in a shell, at least a festival ball sized one even. This gives you a good look at the color from the ground by a large enough sample of the light you will generate to know what it will be. Like I say though, merely my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Im trying this one now: Ammonium perchlorate 70Paris Green 20Hexamine 10Shellac 10 Total: 110 The shellac is used as the binder. Maybe 5% would do. The stars are still drying, but I lit the few small crumbles of composition that were left. The blue is extremely deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) OK, here it is. Do you see a difference or what? ParisGreentest3.AVI Edited February 23, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Try this: Mike Swishers favorite: 24 lbs. chlorate potass. 8 lbs. Paris green 3 lbs. stearine 2 lbs. HCB 2 lbs. dextrine. He says: "If you can't get HCB try Saran. Saran has some fuel value and you may have to drop thestearine content a little if you substitute it." Said to be one of the best blue formulas around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I don't have stearin powder, but I can shave it off some candles, I suppose, if it isn't stearic acid. I don't have Saran either, but I have parlon and chlorowax. It looks the same way IRL; bright in the middle, then indigo and then blue. Note the large flame envelope. So what's your opinion? This is in principle Dr. Shimizu's suggested Paris Green with AP and shellack but laced with hexamine to give a larger flame envelope. Edited February 24, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 My gift it seems is to wander onto threads months after the last post . . . Finally scored some PG and have been experimenting. Lancaster #4 Potassium Chlorate 70PG 20Shellac 10 The footer says "alcohol only" and I knew PG was water insoluble so I used methanol. Weirdly, it started out thick as a paste then got watery over time; took over an hour to thicken up enough to pump. (Shimizu hot prime and they're drying as I type). Your vid of the AP formula was fantastic; that will be my next batch. Meantime, y'all notice that too: getting soupy over time when mixing with alcolol instead of thickening up? Y'all use methanol? Acetone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The footer says "alcohol only" and I knew PG was water insoluble so I used methanol. Weirdly, it started out thick as a paste then got watery over time; took over an hour to thicken up enough to pump. (Shimizu hot prime and they're drying as I type).LOL, I had EXACTLY that problem with these stars, detailed in another zombie thread somewhere. I pumped my stars in the paste state and then watched them dissolve and run together into a toxic green blob that flowed off the tray. It was a week before it stiffened up enough to cut. The mistake was adding enough alcohol to make the mix hold together, when only the 10% shellac will take it up, so it was in fact far too much. Shellac is quite slow to dissolve and the solution isn't sticky until it dries. Ethanol, denatured alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think +5% alcohol of the composition by weight is sufficient. With red gum as the binder it is even less - only about +1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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