How to identify Strontium oxalates and Barium oxalates?

[kleberrios]

Good morning people. I have a problem. I bought 1 kg of strontium oxalate and one kg of barium oxalate in Cooperman435 http://www.cooperman...php?cPath=77_83 and he does not know what is to identify what is oxalate or carbonate. He asked me a 'way of identifying the salts. I told him it's just a little mixture in the solid NC and the flame will burn soft sound and color of the salt, strontium carbonate also burned the color of the salt when mixtured with solid NC solid. Does anyone have any tips? Thanks a lot. Edited January 29, 2012 by kleberrios

[dan999ification]

is it oxalate or carbonate?

both carbonates are used in veline colour stars barium being green and strontium obviously red, i doubt that the oxalate would work the same, small batch of coloured stars?

 

dan.

edit: i cant find barium oxalate on there

edit 2 forgot to add that cooperman is a very reliable and respected member of the community, and i doubted that you would be sent unknown chems.

Edited January 30, 2012 by dan999ification

[Cooperman435]

Just to clarify, Kleborris asked if I had any Barium Oxalate and in a bulk buy we had a number of drums which were un-labelled but believed to be oxalate's by the seller. I havent sent out unknown or unverified product :-0

 

I don't want to send an order out without first verifying the product is exactly what we believe it is and Id like to have a method for checking anyway for personal satisfaction.

 

I'm thinking that a carbonate would react to acids whereas an oxalate wont? Can anyone verify this please or give suitable test suggestions for both metal base checks of oxalates and carbonates and differentiation tests too?

 

The NC test is OK but as NC burns with a yellow/orange hue anyway its a little difficult to satisfactorally make out colour differences in the flame envelope, there is a perceivable redness to all the strontium assumed drum products but no green whatsoever to the barium assumed drums so I do want to completely identify them before allowing someone to buy them.

[Adrenaline]

You can tell them apart with citric acid. The carbonate will react with citric acid, the oxalate won't. Acetic Acid should work, too. You mustn't use an acid like H₂SO₄ because oxalic acid woul react with a realy strong acid.

[Mumbles]

For efficiency's sake I'd use an acid that would produce a soluble salt. Something like acetic acid (vinegar) or HCl would be best. If it's a carbonate, it will have the tell tale fizz as CO2 is released. Oxalic acid will not fizz just from acid. If you're looking for a way to ensure it is oxalate, and not differentiate oxalate from carbonate, that will be a bit more tricky. The easiest way would be to find someone with access to an FTIR instrument. Carbonates, oxalates, sulfates, etc all have characteristic peaks which are slightly affected by the metal it's coordinated to.

 

If you want to do it yourself, it'd probably be easiest to isolate the free acid. It will be trickier, but I think I have an idea how to do it if you're interested.

[Nitrato]

Yeah, try to add a little bit of acid (5% HCl), if it fizz, then is carbonate. To see cation, go to flame test or better yet, pyro flame test; NC may be useful in that

 

As Mumbles said, FTIR is good, however, getting a FTIR analysis is somewhat difficult unless you know/are friend of people that have access to that. Any university with good chem labs near you is where you should go.

 

If you want to do it yourself, it'd probably be easiest to isolate the free acid. It will be trickier, but I think I have an idea how to do it if you're interested.

 

Im guessing you are refering to method of oxalic acid identification, sorry if I misinterpreted you.

Possibly Sulfuric acid + unknow oxalate/carbonate --> Ba/Sr sulfate (s) + oxalic(aq) --filtration---> Na2CO3 ----> ferrous sulfate test for oxalic (yellow ppt)?

Edited January 30, 2012 by Nitrato