justhininabouti Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I plan to start the process of BATFE licensing, and I'm looking for suguestions for building my own storage magazine. I'm going to start out with an indoor magizine as I am just a 'small hobbiest'. I'm wondering if members who have indoor (and outdoor) magazines would be willing to post their designs, and or pictures of the finished product. I know every BATFE office (officer) have their own expectations form applicants. I would also like to hear suguestions of expiditing the BATFE process, and pitfall people have run into. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks265 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I have pics of mine in the gallery http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/gallery/album/4380/22-marks-265/ The best thing I can tell you is to study the orange book. It contains everything that the inspectors will cover. The latest version that I am aware of is found here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5400-7.pdf The inspectors are usually pretty good. But you definitely want to be knowledgable when they do show up. I have been hearing that the license types that are applied for is changing but I have not experienced that myself. Expediting? LOL It does take a little time but I think it depends on their schedule. After you study the orange book for a bit you should then ask more questions. I would start with looking at distances to see if you have the room for a magazine and continue from there. The more you know before the interview the better you will feel. Good luck and ask away Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I have pics of mine in the gallery http://www.amateurpy...0/22-marks-265/ The best thing I can tell you is to study the orange book. It contains everything that the inspectors will cover. The latest version that I am aware of is found here: http://www.atf.gov/p...tf-p-5400-7.pdf The inspectors are usually pretty good. But you definitely want to be knowledgable when they do show up. I have been hearing that the license types that are applied for is changing but I have not experienced that myself. Expediting? LOL It does take a little time but I think it depends on their schedule. After you study the orange book for a bit you should then ask more questions. I would start with looking at distances to see if you have the room for a magazine and continue from there. The more you know before the interview the better you will feel. Good luck and ask away Mark Mark. Thanks for the reply. I've seen a number of people using these type of boxes as their starting point. I had thought I would weld something up, but with the cost of steel this seems like a more cost effective start. I've had a copy of the 'orange book' for some time now, I guess my comment about 'expediting' was silly. I've worked with government agencies, and I know Government and expidite are mutually exclusive. I don't trully expect to be ready to 'apply' to the BATFE for some time. I just think that a magazine would be the logical place to start my preperations, as it is required even for a amature to store fireworks. I should have mentioned that I plan to start with a small indoor magazine. I've seen a few designs that I could replicate. I have a shop that is currently meets table 555.218 for up to 50Lbs. I plan a shop in the future with greater distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) the room the magazine is in must have no electricity nor switches in it and nothing that might cause a spark. A Shop doesn't sound like it is going to work unless you build a special room off of it with the proper door and locks on it. If you might go ahead and send me your email via PM I can send you a PDF that a person sent me on how to make such a room and place your toolbox type 4 magazine into it that should be approved by the ATF. Remember, your place of manufacture has to be 150 feet away from the magazine and the magazine has to be 200 feet from the road and your nearest neighbor's house. If I hav e this wrong I am sure someone will correct me but this is what I gathered from the Orange Book. don't forget those pesky local requirements. make sure you have the state, county and whatever other sorts of powers that be's blessings before you contact the BATFE for theirs. Edited January 26, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks265 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 No problem, you had put "outdoor" in parenthesis otherwise I might not have touched on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Probably by some bureaucratic oversight, the table of distances from roads and neighbors' houses only applies to outdoor magazines. If you put your box in a Rubbermaid plastic shed it becomes an indoor magazine, for which there are no separation requirements, except for your manufacturing area. You need a lot of space, since it's barely possible to get 200 feet separation on an acre (208 feet square). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Probably by some bureaucratic oversight, the table of distances from roads and neighbors' houses only applies to outdoor magazines. If you put your box in a Rubbermaid plastic shed it becomes an indoor magazine, for which there are no separation requirements, except for your manufacturing area. You need a lot of space, since it's barely possible to get 200 feet separation on an acre (208 feet square). A Rubbermaid shed does not meet the security requirements to house an indoor magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 A Rubbermaid shed does not meet the security requirements to house an indoor magazine.I only used that as a facetious example, but I think you are wrong anyway. This is all it says in the Orange Book: (1) General. Indoor magazines are to be fire-resistant and theft-resistant. They need not be weather-resistant if the buildings in which they are stored provide protection from the weather. No indoor magazine is to be located in a residence or dwelling. The indoor storage of low explosives must not exceed a quantity of 50 pounds. More than one indoor magazine may be located in the same building if the total quantity of explosive materials stored does not exceed 50 pounds. Detonators that will not mass detonate must be stored in a separate magazine and the total number of electric detonators must not exceed 5,000.Everything else is details of the construction of the magazine itself, with not one more word about the building housing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I was also under the impression that if the indoor magazine was somehow secured, any sort of secured covering would suffice. Two friends have indoor magazines. One is secured in a locked 40ft container, which is ATF approved. The other is in essentially a Menards Aluminum barn, which is not officially approved but seems to meet all requirements. It is on a concrete slab to which it is bolted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justhininabouti Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The other is in essentially a Menards Aluminum barn, which is not officially approved but seems to meet all requirements. It is on a concrete slab to which it is bolted to. Is his magazine contained within the barn, or is the Barn itself the Magazine? I was also under the impression that if the indoor magazine was somehow secured, any sort of secured covering would suffice... I would think the 'theft resistant' statement would make securing a small magazine (say...under 1 cubic yard, a recurring size mentioned in the Orange Book) necessary. If I understand the orange book correctly there are no deffinitions of the 'building' housing the magazine, so a 'Rubbermaid shed' could qualify as a 'building' housing the magazine by a less (or perhaps more) then observent inspector, and be approved as a building housing a Magazine. I don't think anyone serious about getting licensed would seriously consider trying to get away with it. Edited January 27, 2012 by justhininabouti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 a 'Rubbermaid shed' could qualify as a 'building' housing the magazine by a less (or perhaps more) then observent inspector, and be approved as a building housing a Magazine. I don't think anyone serious about getting licensed would seriously consider trying to get away with it.No, people have seriously tried to get away with it, and succeeded. There's been discussion about it on Passfire. If you don't have a membership there, it's worth signing up for the free week and reading the lengthy thread about getting legal, which is full of information about peoples' experience with the inspectors. It's not the building that needs to be approved. ATF inspectors are bureaucrats who follow the letter of what's written down in the Orange Book and don't have discretion to add to it. They can be nasty or nice, but if you comply with everything in the Orange Book they can't refuse to approve you. The main thing the regulations cover is prevention of theft, which is why they're so meticulous about the magazine locks, so the magazine should be bolted to the shed and the shed should be fixed such that a thief can't pick up the whole thing and throw it in the back of a truck. You may have more of a problem with your own city or county fire marshal, of course. The ATF won't approve you unless you tell them and get their consent first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I decided to post in this thread rather than making a new one. Anytime soon I plan transfering any combustible substances, chemicals and of course finished items outdoors. Up to now they were stored in the basement, locked away, but I don´t want them in my house anymore and in a suitable storage facility, preferably a container. However, the chemicals alone are worth some $, so two issue come to my mind: - humidity: this is probably solved by using sealed boxes.- temperature: this seems more difficult: I can´t heat the container during the wintermonths, or cool it in the summer (medium climate zone), so are these temps, especially low ones in the winter, expected to do any harm to my stored goods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying fish Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) My thought is that temperature cycles should do no harm to most fireworks, considering that nearly every fireworks wholesaler that I know of stores their stuff in unheated shipping containers. I'm from the American midwest where we do have a solid 4 seasons, typically with annual lows are -25 and annual highs around 38 degrees Celcius. The only exception may be if you are storing things with sealed fuel bottles (lampares) or if you are using non traditional adhesives in your construction that might be affected by repeated temperature cycling. . I also don't know how necessary it is to remove unmixed chemicals from your house, but I would at least put fuels and oxidizers apart and lock up anything that is particularly toxic. Some people may differ on this point. You might consider the rubbermaid shed idea as above, though i have no personal experience with them. Actually, as a slight double-hijacking, I have an interesting situation/question: The homeowner's association won't let me build a shed, but my neighbors on either side (the only ones who would ever see it) don't mind. The potential shed building area is behind enough trees that it is invisible from the road. I'm considering putting up some kind of small waterproof shed (perhaps a rubbermaid) that is easy to put up and take down (in case the HOA tells me I have to remove it), and yet somehow is still secure enough to be accepted by the ATF as a "building" for an indoor magazine. Any thoughts on whether this seems feasible? Edited January 21, 2013 by flying fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynomike1 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) If possible go in the ground with it. Why wouldn't the Homeowners Asses let you put a storm shelter in, then the only ATF regulation you have to worry about is the door. Edited January 21, 2013 by dynomike1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying fish Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) That's a good idea, just sounds like it would be expensive. My dream is to buy some land to build a workshop and magazine on, so my "temporary" solution for the next few years would have to be a small expense by comparison, otherwise I think it would make more sense to just keep saving. I could also try to get whatever I build approved by the HOA, but my feeling on the matter is that "it is easier to apologize than to ask for permission" especially with the relatively small repurcussions of violating the HOA rules. Pretty much everyone in the neighborhood has minor violations, like fire pits that aren't supposed to be there, etc, so I'm not sure how much they care as long as it isn't a nusaince or an eyesore. Edited January 21, 2013 by flying fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirCowPeacock Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 My dream is to buy some land to build a workshop and magazine on, so my "temporary" solution for the next few years would have to be a small expense by comparison, therwise I think it would make more sense to just keep saving. I too share that dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxsavage Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) This might be helpful, it has instructions at the end for making a magazine in the rear part of a workshop. http://turbo-pyro.s3.amazonaws.com/Fireworks-the-Law-and-You.pdf Edited January 29, 2013 by foxsavage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirCowPeacock Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thanks for the link, it's a real help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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