Bleser #25 and Hexaclorobenzene

[leosedf]

As the title says i would like to make some Bleser #25 green strobe mix.

The composition is:

Barium Nitrate 53

Sulfur 17

Hexachlorobenzene 13

Magnalium, granular, -100 mesh 12

Dextrin 5

 

In parts.

 

The main problem is Hexachlorobenzene (90% chlorine content) wich is suspected to be carcinogenic but also VERY hard to find.

So i was thinking of replacing it with parlon (70% Chlorine content) and use 30% more. It should work since it's only a chlorine donor.

I know it can be substituted with Dechlorane but in our area this is also difficult to find.

What do you think?

 

I would also like to ask if i can dump the dextrin since i will be binding with acetone.

 

Regards

Edited January 17, 2012 by leosedf

[Potassiumchlorate]

I have used hexachloroethane instead of hexachlorobenzene. That's probably easier to find in here in Europe.

 

Otherwise I think chlorowax is a better substitute.

 

Btw, HCB has 70% chlorine content, it's HCE that has 90%, though due to it's volatility you could for sure use just the same amount HCE for HCB. Lots of the chlorine will evaporate, before the stars are fired anyway.

[leosedf]

Oh!

Any sources in Europe?

Btw is it still good enough to use Parlon? Since it has the same amount of chlorine with HCB.

Edited January 17, 2012 by leosedf

[Mumbles]

Using parlon is still worth a shot. I'm sure more people would be happy if it works than having to resort to slightly more exotic chlorine donors. Part of the appeal of HCB is that it is almost fuel neutral. It doesn't contribute a lot of fuel value to the composition, which doesn't encourage continuous burning. I'm worried that parlon may tip it more in that direction, but at the same time it is a fire retardant. There is only one way to find out I guess. In normal stars where it is strictly just a chlorine donor and fuel properties don't matter much, I've been told that saran is a good substitute, but I don't know if that goes for strobes too.

[leosedf]

I'm already mixing chems, i will let you know how it goes.

How about dextrin? Can i dump it and bind with parlon? Or still use it?

[Mumbles]

It'd probably work fine. However, it may be best to stick with changing one variable at a time.

[leosedf]

Nope, doesn't strobe but it burns a VERY nice green.

Those were bound with acetone.

 

Compared to my bleser white strobes they strobe every second.

Maybe if i used water only to activate dextrin.

Oh well.

[Mumbles]

Now that I think of it, the binding very well could be. Parlon bound stars do burn faster than the same formula bound with water. I'm of the belief that the fast evaporation of the acetone leaves tiny air pockets which speed things up.

 

I also can't help but noticing that you were only mixing up the composition 2 hours ago. It might be worth it if you have any stars left to try it again tomorrow just so all traces of acetone can be allowed to evaporate.

[leosedf]

Yeap i left them to dry, you are correct about timing Mumbles.

If they fail i'll just use them as green cores for my purple stars, i may try to make another batch bound with dextrin tomorrow.

[WSM]

I think Parlon will have too much fuel value to allow the strobe effect to function properly. Let us know how they turn out.

 

WSM

[Potassiumchlorate]

Now that I think of it, the binding very well could be. Parlon bound stars do burn faster than the same formula bound with water. I'm of the belief that the fast evaporation of the acetone leaves tiny air pockets which speed things up.

 

Yup. I love Bleser's white and red Mg stars, but they burn within a second. I think that for a 5" or 6" shell you should make 20mm stars, if they are parlon bound.

[pyrojig]

You know its kind of funny that you should bring this up ( I just had the same issue ). Its a very good point about what is a suitable sub for the HCB..

Here is my exact notes for a sub I used, that worked perfectly. The 13 % of HBC was replaced by 5% PVC + 3% parlon mixed together.

It was suggested to me by another pyro . Not sure why less was used instead of making up to 13% of subbed material, but it may have to do with what Dag was saying . ALSO , your strobe rate will be controlled by the size mesh of Magnal you use.

 

 

[leosedf]

Hey guys! Seems i have a nice green comp burning but no strobing at all.

Pyrojig those you are talking about are strobe stars? Or just a comp where you replaced the chlorine donor?

 

So i can now try two things, one is to bind with dextrin and the other bind with dextrin and use two chlorine donors as Pyrojig suggested.

 

Any more ideas?

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I once asked for a good HCB substitute in strobe stars and was suggested Saran. Haven´t tried it though, so far.

[leosedf]

Seems that anyone suggests a different chlorine donor.

[pyrojig]

Hey guys! Seems i have a nice green comp burning but no strobing at all.

Pyrojig those you are talking about are strobe stars? Or just a comp where you replaced the chlorine donor?

 

So i can now try two things, one is to bind with dextrin and the other bind with dextrin and use two chlorine donors as Pyrojig suggested.

 

Any more ideas?

 

That was the Blesers green strobe I was speaking of .

Saran is a good replacement for parlon . It is cheaper, and its value as a chlorine donor is alike to parlon.

 

And yes , bind it with dextrin.

[leosedf]

Hm! I only have PVC and Parlon for now. I'll try to find Saran if i can.

[Mumbles]

Saran is my favorite chlorine donor. Like I said, I often hear people recommend Saran for HCB, but they never seem to make it clear if it'd work for strobes or not. This usually comes up when discussing paris green stars and other older formulas. Saran is quite clean burning. People who say that perchlorate stars burn too slow clearly do not use saran or tuned formulas.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I think Saran is impossible to get hold of in Europe too.

 

HCE should be a good substitute, if it doesn't evaporate before the stars are ready to use. I see that it was used in some of those Russian fires.

[leosedf]

I'm cutting stars right now bound with dextrin, i use the addition of 5% PVC and 3% Parlon.

I'll let you guys know in the after noon after i dry them.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I often hear people recommend Saran for HCB, but they never seem to make it clear if it'd work for strobes or not.

 

"For colored strobe stars, the best I've seen and made use ammonium

perchlorate and magnesium and good colors can be made without

additional chlorine donors which are usually necessary in the nitrate

strobe mixes (especially if using Mg/Al alloy instead of pure

(treated) magnesium. Again, I've used Saran, 1 for 1 in place of HCB

in some nitrate colored strobes I've tried with good results. "

 

This is the reply I was reffering to. I got it from John Reilly on rec. pyro. I have Saran, but have not tried it so far. Have you tried it in strobe stars, Mumbles?

Edited January 21, 2012 by AdmiralDonSnider

[Mumbles]

I have not. I always thought it burned too clean to give strobes. That's probably just from being compared to parlon though. Given what I've read in the last few days in doing some research for this thread that doesn't seem to be an issue, and possibly even ideal. It appears to me now that saran doesn't speed anything up, just doesn't retard it like parlon. It could be more fuel neutral like HCB perhaps.

 

I've seen a few people talk over on the UKPS forums about CPVC. I haven't found a food place to get it in the US, but it seems possibly available over there. That might be something to try. It's not quite the same as Saran, but seems to have some similar properties.

[Potassiumchlorate]

This German supplier has it. Its called PVCC in German : Hot Ferrum