pyrogeorge Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Hi,I tried to roll d1 stars but the water destroyed the glitter effect..Any tips for successfull rolling this stars?Can i replace dextrin with red gum or shellac to use only acetone and to avoid the water?thanks Edited January 14, 2012 by pyrogeorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I am by no means an expert, but IIRC Ralph once told me that a hydrocarbon binder/ fuel had to be present in order for water to be one of the products of the combustion, this is necessary for the glitter effect to be produced. I'm not 100% sure but I also remember that in Ralph's Glitters he uses gum Arabic as part of the binder in some cases, so you might be able to use that. Don't quote me on this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hi,I tried to roll d1 stars but the water destroyed the glitter effect..Any tips for successfull rolling this stars?Can i replace dextrin with red gum or shellac to use only acetone and to avoid the water?thanks Only roll them a few millimeters at a time and dry them fast. My D1 and RG-1 work fine if I get them dry quickly. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Did you roll with 50/50 water/alc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Water produced in combustion has nothing to do with the glitter effect. Plenty of water is produced from the combustion of charcoal anyway. Gum Arabic can be used to bind glitters. Some respond better than others. What do you mean when you say the effect was "destroyed" by rolling with water. Also, did you force dry them with heat by any chance? Redgum or shellac may kill the effect. I recall people saying that if you want to use a non-aqueous binder that PVB is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I mean no flashes at all Mumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 How were they dried? It can often be possible to avoid or reduce reactions by drying in a cool, shaded place rather than baking in the sun. To be sure though, I second Dagabu's advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 They were dried indoors,not in the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I rolled them to 5mm and put them into a dehydrator and were dry overnight. I also used RO/DI water for them so as to not introduce anything that could upset the comp. 3mm on top of that and 2mm to finish them then BP to taste. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asilentbob Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Did you simply burn them on the ground? Or did you do a star gun test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Did you simply burn them on the ground? Or did you do a star gun test? Made about a dozen shells with that batch and still have a pound of cores I took off the stars while rolling them. The shells looked great with a nice glitter star to dragon egg core. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asilentbob Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sorry for the confusion dag, I was asking the original poster. Many stars look pitiful on the ground and pretty great in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was having a bit of the same problem last week. My concern was using too much water on the glitter comps. I was force drying which is not recommended for these or at least not till after air drying for a day or so. Normally you will see "no more than 10% water" on most glitter comps so I thought that water hinders the effect. Needless to say, I was corrected about that. Actually, water is essential to the glitter effect and many glitters will take more water than the 10% suggested especially with a cut star. I went up 2% on the binder (from .04 to .06)Dex and rolling went much smoother using less water and with little or no change on the effect. I still stuck to less than 10% by weight solution of 75/25/2boric. That being said, If these stars are lit on the ground they only smolder, sizzle and leave a puddle of liquid Al. They have to be fired in a mine, shell or star gun to see the effect. There are some glitters that guys are using phenolic binders on, but the examples I've seen have MgAl added to them. Rolling is fairly new to me and I am by no means an expert, but I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Pyrogeorge. Did you try to use spherical Aluminum? I thing it is good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Did you simply burn them on the ground? Or did you do a star gun test?No,i used it in 2" shell and in a starmine.Pumped stars works great.Rolled stars failed. Pyrogeorge. Did you try to use spherical Aluminum? I thing it is good choice.I use bright Al 325#. I will try in future another batch of rolled stars and i will post the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I agree with Karlos...try using atomized spherical Al if you have access to it. You didn't mention what size they were rolled to, but you may want to try building the stars in increments instead of one continuous run. Were the the stars primed? Edited January 16, 2012 by DanielC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 No prime.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I always meal prime D1 or any glitter for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I roll D1 with much water , they shine very good. But I never had the glitter effect wasted by to much water. Maybe it's something else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 dagabu presented the solution: drying time. Glitters become overly drossy when wet for too long (over 48hours), this prevents spritz reactions (flashes). Water itself is not the problem, it´s drying time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts