usapyro Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Does anyone know of a simple high power APCP formula? Most of the formulas I have found are annoyingly complex and contain tons of rare chemicals. I'm looking for something as simple like AP/PBAN/AL 60/20/20... Is a burn rate catalyst absolutely necessary? Edited December 29, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Ammonium nitrate 90Urethane plastic 10 I don't have a clue how you would keep the AN completely dry by the process, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Does anyone know of a simple high power APCP formula? Most of the formulas I have found are annoyingly complex and contain tons of rare chemicals. I'm looking for something as simple like AP/PBAN/AL 60/20/20... Is a burn rate catalyst absolutely necessary? Considering that the only other chemical in basic (SSRB) APCP is ferric oxide, I'm not sure I see the problem. For the maximum amount of info about APCP, get Terry McCreary's book "Experimental Composite Propellants" A far bigger problem is characterizing the propellant, and designing and making an adequate motor case and nozzle. Lacking an adequate (i.e. instrumented) test stand and a good theoretical background you're likely to have many, many very loud, expensive failures. Get PROPep to start with, and fiddle with some of the factors. Hopefully this will give you some idea of the complexity of the interactions. I plugged the formula you suggested into PROPep and BurnSim and ran a simulation. It wasn't pretty Kevin Edited December 29, 2011 by Nessalco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Eh, Ferric oxide... Red iron oxide? Got that. I tried to install PROPep on one of the newest version of windows... Endless errors. Gave up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Eh, Ferric oxide... Red iron oxide? Got that. I tried to install PROPep on one of the newest version of windows... Endless errors. Gave up! PROPep is an old program and works under 16 bit, all windows 32 bit are 16 bit and 32 bit, all windows 64 bit are 32bit and 64 bit, so you must install something 32 bit like windows xp 32bit (x84), with 64 bit it will not work Ammonium nitrate 90Urethane plastic 10 I don't have a clue how you would keep the AN completely dry by the process, though. First time a here for this propellant, can you give me more details please? Edited December 30, 2011 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 PROPep is an old program and works under 16 bit, all windows 32 bit are 16 bit and 32 bit, all windows 64 bit are 32bit and 64 bit, so you must install something 32 bit like windows xp 32bit (x84), with 64 bit it will not work Sorry, didn't even think of that. I have a couple of machines I keep running just for legacy programs and hardware. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Download from the attachmentIf it doesn't work just copy the files into the program folder, like the crack, thy each one folder first, after copy them...GUIPEP.zip Edited December 30, 2011 by THEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Download from the attachmentIf it doesn't work just copy the files into the program folder, like the crack, thy each one folder first, after copy them... Just a note - the output from PROPep/GUIPep will give you propellant parameters that you then plug into a program called BurnSim. It's a $40 program, but worth it if you're going to work with APCP propellants in any quantity. There is a demo version available - I don't know if it will allow you to enter your own fuel parameters or not. The registered version certainly does. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't know if this would work. When I got a new computer I really didn't have much choice but to get 64 bit windows 7. If you go to any program and click on properties, you can open it in a previous compatibility mode. I've had to do this with a few things in order to get them to run properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It will not work, try a virtual PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 70% AP 200 micron10% Al powder 20 micron atomised12.8% R45-HTLO1.60% Isonate 143L5.0% DOA0.6% mixture of appropriate ratio epoxy resin + curative system, preferably not using isophorone diamine curative (slow reaction) OH:NCO more or less = 1.00 80% solids, but high performance, simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 May I ask why you are wanting APCP formulas? They usually require metal motor tubes, and specific graphite nozzles to work efficiently. Another problem is they cant be pressed or rammed, as they are made as a sticky putty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm sure I can get them to fly with a grog/bentonite nozzle inside PVC. Might melt the rocket tube to failure halfway through flight... But we shall see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm sure I can get them to fly with a grog/bentonite nozzle inside PVC. Might melt the rocket tube to failure halfway through flight... But we shall see! It usually warms the PVC up too much and ejects the nozzle. I went on to reloadables for that reason but a few well placed screws will hold the nozzle long enough to burn off the fuel. Not for pyro use though, no PVC, no metal screws in pyro. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ammonium nitrate 90Urethane plastic 10 I don't have a clue how you would keep the AN completely dry by the process, though. This would not be APCP though, this would be ANCP ,if anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 70% AP 200 micron10% Al powder 20 micron atomised12.8% R45-HTLO1.60% Isonate 143L5.0% DOA0.6% mixture of appropriate ratio epoxy resin + curative system, preferably not using isophorone diamine curative (slow reaction) OH:NCO more or less = 1.00 80% solids, but high performance, simple Lovely composition! I hope the O.P Can see it's not so simple.APCP is the best solid fuel out there, ISP wise. It's also one of the hardest to ignite, to manufacture and to make casings and inhibitors for. One love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OctoberSky0330 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hey guys I just want to say that these comments are very inspirational as I will be making my own APCP rocket fuel for the first time and conducting many tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Eh, Ferric oxide... Red iron oxide? Got that. I tried to install PROPep on one of the newest version of windows... Endless errors. Gave up! Unless I am wrong again, FERRIC is the black stuff, Ferrous is the red. Otherwise this shirt wouldn't be so funny to me.... Edited March 13, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep, you're wrong. Iron (III) Oxide is red. Iron (II) oxide and Magnetite Iron (II,III) Oxide are both black. Many of these transition metal oxides are not so simple however, and actually somewhat rarely are stoichiometric solids. Iron oxide comes in many shades depending on impurities and stoichiometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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