pyrothrust Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have been using a pva adhesive , but find the tubes are not that hard, Any recommendations such as wheat paste or dextrin solution Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I use pva and you could probably knock nails in with the tubes. I`ve tried starch based glues and wallpaper paste to save cash but i found them spongy and more prone to coming unstuck part way through the wall, you can end up with a nice 2 section telescopic tube where the layer gives way. PVA is a one shot deal (you can`t back up once you`ve rolled it) but for me it gives the best result. If you`re using kraft paper make sure the straight grain runs towards the ends of the tube, (wet a piece of paper on one side and see which way it curls up, you roll in the direction of the curl) that`ll tighten up the tube even more as it dries. If you are doing that already, then you may just need more pressure on as you`re rolling it. I keep an average of 15-20kg on the tube all the time, curiousity got the better of me one day and i used the bathroom scales to measure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortartube Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I have been using a pva adhesive , but find the tubes are not that hard, Any recommendations such as wheat paste or dextrin solution Cheers Try watering down your PVA a little. I have never measured the amount as I do it by eye, but I would say about 2 to 3% water stirred in helps the glue to be absorbed into the paper more readily. Also paste the paper and let it stand for 30 seconds if possible before rolling to wet the paper. It's trial and error depending on the paper type but it makes rock hard tubes for me. Edited December 20, 2011 by Mortartube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 water down the pva [i use up to 25% water] i find you cant unroll it aswell, you do need pressure if you roll with the fingers you get loose egg shape tubes.some say its easy i say not i make good tubes but find them time consuming and annoying if i make one mistake i lose patience.wallpaper paste has made some good tubes for me you can unroll if you make a mistake but i find the tubes not as strong as my pva rolled ones i can stand on them.not all is lost if you are not happy with them or they are not strong enough use them for something else. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Dan, I use wilko`s mulit-purpose pva adhesive and sealer, theres no need to water it down. You can get about fifty tubes 12" long x 3/4" id x 3/16" wall from a 2.5L bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have been using a pva adhesive , but find the tubes are not that hard, Any recommendations such as wheat paste or dextrin solution Cheers well saturated kraft with wallpaper paste,thats it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Dan, I use wilko`s mulit-purpose pva adhesive and sealer, theres no need to water it down. You can get about fifty tubes 12" long x 3/4" id x 3/16" wall from a 2.5L bottle. hobby craft school pva 500 ml makes enough tubes for me to last a year but i dont make many bigguns, the water is for ease of rolling, too sticky too quickly otherwise, very unforgiving with recycled kraft. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairseggie Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hi All It has been a while since I rolled tubes but as a kid (mid 80's) I used to use paper packaging tape with a water based glue (probably a pva) and these used to stand up very well. I am currently trying to sorce some of this in the UK without much luck. the great thing about this was that the glue was evenly distributed between every layer and produced extremely light and strong tubes. Alastair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortartube Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) What are you trying to source? Glue or tape? Edited January 18, 2012 by Mortartube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have been making 7/16" ID rockets for the past few months and used every adhesive I have in the shop that I thought would be worth trying and found that SO FAR the best is a combination of two. I decided on using wheat paste (thick) to saturate the paper and roll then use PVA to seal the flap on the end after they dry some. The tubes are harder and don't spiral in when pressed to high pressures like PVA does. I also use a dehydrator to dry the tubes and that may be the reason that they dry so hard. One caveat, they shrink some and need to be rolled on a former .005" larger then the tooling or they will grab the walls. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I use pva on mine and they dont spiral with a 10 ton press, sure it wasn`t a dodgy batch of paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helix Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Alastair You can buy PVA from the builders merchants quite cheap - look for PVA sealer or adhesive - its used for priming porous surfaces in the building trade before a number of surface treatments. You will get a litre (at least) for under a tenner from Keyline or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I use pva on mine and they dont spiral with a 10 ton press, sure it wasn`t a dodgy batch of paper? It's chip board, the PVA will not soak in like wheat paste. If I used kraft, I would be fine with PVA. Plus, I get 3# of dry wheat paste for $6.00 and that makes about 5 gallons of paste, a gallon of PVA costs me $12.00 at Menards. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Aye, chipboard doesnt absorb pva like kraft, its probably down to the compression used. Your pva is dirt cheap compared to here, its almost like they`re paying you to take it away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Your pva is dirt cheap compared to here, its almost like they`re paying you to take it away True that! Even a full four liters of Titebond lll, just about the best overall wood glue there is runs about $25.00 plus some shipping. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drthrust Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 talking about tube rolling, has anybody tried the double gluing method?ie you give the kraft paper an initial coating of pva, allow to dry then recoat again and roll ,i find this makes for a pleasing tube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 talking about tube rolling, has anybody tried the double gluing method?ie you give the kraft paper an initial coating of pva, allow to dry then recoat again and roll ,i find this makes for a pleasing tube Yes, I double glue with wheat paste, it needs time to penetrate the chip board and so it drys as it sits and I hit it again with more paste before I roll them. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 twice as much pva..could get pricey one good coat on virgin kraft with a bit of soak time does a pretty good job. I`ll try the double coat method next time i roll some and see how much pressure it takes to split it compared to the one coat tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonGuyDude Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 twice as much pva..could get pricey one good coat on virgin kraft with a bit of soak time does a pretty good job. I`ll try the double coat method next time i roll some and see how much pressure it takes to split it compared to the one coat tube. Speaking of virgin kraft, anyone know a good source online or a way to find it locally? I've looked and looked in the paper shops in my area and none of them even know what it is >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Go check out Berlau, guys over at Passfire have been buying from them and like the paper. https://www.berlaupaperhouse.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=14 -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 talking about tube rolling, has anybody tried the double gluing method?ie you give the kraft paper an initial coating of pva, allow to dry then recoat again and roll ,i find this makes for a pleasing tube yes but i find with the recycled paper that i use it crinkles up as soon as you wet it making it nearly impossible to roll a good tube, glue, roll dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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