THEONE Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Boys can somebody tell to me how i can change the color of the smoke ? i want to make smokebombs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 You have to use colored smoke formulas. These function (normally) by vaporizing an organic dye. Nearly all colored smoke formulations have approximately the following formula: Dye - 50 partsPotassium Chlorate - 30 partsLactose - 20 parts The addition of a carbonate can help to cool the flame, and enhance the effect, but that is a pretty generic formula that should work at least partially in most cases. To answer a few very common questions No, you cannot color the smoke past maybe light grey of a Potassium Nitrate/sugar smoke bomb. Any video claiming to do this is complete BS. No, you cannot use other oxidizers than potassium chlorate. The dyes needed are somewhat specialized, and fairly hard to get and pretty expensive. Most dyes will not work. Clothing dye you buy at the supermarket will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrochris732 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I was looking at the prices of various dyes, and couldnt believe how much money they are. I thought it would be fun to make some homeade smokers for my little nephew but I decided against color because of the price alone of the dye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 I was looking at the prices of various dyes, and couldnt believe how much money they are. I thought it would be fun to make some homeade smokers for my little nephew but I decided against color because of the price alone of the dye. What dye it weel need? where i can find and where it use? (i try egg dye without success...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrochris732 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 What dye it weel need? where i can find and where it use? (i try egg dye without success...) http://www.americanpyrosupply.com/Products-SMOKE_KITS_BULK_DYES.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 http://www.americanp..._BULK_DYES.html It is posible to find it in your local hoby shop ? i dont know where they use it because when i ask if the have they always ask for what use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is posible to find it in your local hoby shop ? i dont know where they use it because when i ask if the have they always ask for what use... No, it is not available at hobby shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It depends on what you really want to make. Some older formulas use the following: Rhodamine B (kind of a redish purple)paranitraniline red (red)auramine (yellow)Synthetic Indigo (dark blue/purple)Phthalocyanine Blue (blue) Here is a list of more contemporary dyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored_smoke As for where you get any of them, good luck. As I said before, they're hard to source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 As for where you get any of them, good luck. As I said before, they're hard to source. Is any way that you can make your own organic powdered die ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Sure. All of the above contain molecular formulas and structures, feel free to look up the syntheses of them. Solvent Red 9 from the wikipedia article may not be the correct structure, you may want to cross reference against some other sources. Others may be more generous, but I'm not going through the trouble of finding all the detailed procedures. Most are not hard to make, but you'll want to have a good background in synthetic organic chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 some, not all organic dyes are used in the food trade/ takeaway[they must be organic for this reason,not blue,sedan red is now banned]. in europe at least they use orange for tikka red for tandoori and yellow for korma[curry houses]/catering suppliers are not cheap but normally stock.fishing bait manafacturers also use and sell[mainline ] nashbait] richworth] various colours and ship to europe, i have a selection and always wondered if they were ok for the job but they do seem a bit pricey for the amounts requireddan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woland Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hi every one, this is my first post on this forum.Apologize me for this. I have a question. Which is the way to use the smoke composition?In a container?Can it be pressed? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 welcome to the forum, it is used in a container theyre normally melted and then cored i dont know if you could press one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolic Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 hi guys, my first post too,, this is a great website... from what I have seen,, the smoke mixture can be loaded into the case without any pressing. it can simply be poured in. However, I think the best way to get the good smoke colour rather than a brown burning smoke is to employ the use of a choke. after inspecting some comercial smoke systems, i have seen chokes made with 2 metal discs held close together with a rubber ring keeping them apart. the discs are sitting at the top of the smoke can and fuse throught the middle. the disks have only a few holes drilled through so that the smoke mix is choked as the pressure builds. unless using aluminium discs, I guess the choke would have to be made from clay or wood so it last long enough and does not burn out before the smoke mix has finished. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Lee, One of the safety items we like to emphasize is that we dont use metal if we can avoid it. Smoke cans can be made with glued disks and some waterglass without the hazards of metal shrapnel. This Tutorial LINK shows a smoke bomb being made from simple paper tubes and caps. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolic Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Lee, One of the safety items we like to emphasize is that we dont use metal if we can avoid it. Smoke cans can be made with glued disks and some waterglass without the hazards of metal shrapnel. This Tutorial LINK shows a smoke bomb being made from simple paper tubes and caps. -dag yes dag, I do understand that metal should be avoided and so thats why i mentioned clay or wood chokes. the reason for mention of metal was beacause I was refereing to a comercial product. I should have made it clear to begin with that I make my canisters with heavy wall cardbard tubes. thanks for your link on smoke system., I seen your cannon also,, I'm also a fellow shooter and work as a gunsmith and enjoy the building of such items Lee Edited May 3, 2011 by parabolic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I am somewhat troubled on one thing about the smoke bomb. lactose! I cant seem to get it anywhere for rates which are about he same as the dye!is it completely necessary to use lactose in a colored smoke bomb? because i dont want to have to use sulfur for the fuel as it is in other recipes , just because of the instabilityalso, with chlorate smoke mixes, both with and without lactose, would it make much difference if the mixture was molten or compacted together? or does lightly packed powder work fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 You really need to do some reading on these devices, along with every other project you get in your mind. You clearly have no idea what you're doing. I'd avoid using chlorates if I were you for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 im just practising with chlorates, i have no intensions of putting it on a canister or anything just quite yet. Also i have found very little information anywhere about why lactose is used for a fuel, and if it can be replaced with anything other than dextrin. Might you otherwise be able to suggest some source of information on building smoke bombs? I honestly did have a good look, but all the places i find, just state the ingredients, and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 completely different topic here: For a great, long-lasting white smoke i normally do a 50:50 mix of sulfur/nitrate, then press with a nozzle on standard endburner tooling. can anyone forsee problems (safety or otherwise) with this method? the composition is lancaster48 k-nit48 sulfur4 realgar I omitted the realgar, for obvious reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I bought some smoke dye recently, the seller suggested a forumla of potassium chlorate, powdered sugar (sucrose) , a pinch of sodium bicarbonate, and the dye. No lactose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I too used sucrose with some blue dye two years ago, it did degrade the blue since it burnt hotter then I expected. Does Lactose burn cooler? -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I do believe lactose does burn cooler, yes. As far as books, I'd suggest Shimizu's FAST, and Hardt's Pyrotechnics. Ellern may also have some valuable information. The nitrate/sulfur smoke likely produces clouds of noxious, corrosive, toxic gas/vapor even without the realgar. Other than that it should be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Dag, That's good to know, I bought blue dye hoping for a nice deep blue. If the lactose burns cooler I will try to find some when I get some potassium chlorate. They're on my long list of things to do, will probably wait a while before I get to them. Edit: a while back I made the degn white smoke: sulfur- 16potassium nitrate - 12af charcoal - 1 Pressed into hand rolled tubes with bp prime and a nozzle, they did produce a slightly yellowish white/grey smoke. They made a yellow spot in the snow from all the sulfur and the smoke unfortunately blew towards the house. I don't usually complain about the sulfur smell, but these were almost unbearable. I still have the rest of the mix, I haven't made any more since. Edited August 29, 2011 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I do believe lactose does burn cooler, yes. As far as books, I'd suggest Shimizu's FAST, and Hardt's Pyrotechnics. Ellern may also have some valuable information. The nitrate/sulfur smoke likely produces clouds of noxious, corrosive, toxic gas/vapor even without the realgar. Other than that it should be safe. ah, i see. that's good to know. what compound is formed that is toxic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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