eggi96 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 With the green star formula barium nitrate...7potassium chlorate...7shellac...2How do you make the stars because I cant remember where I got this formula from but it had some short directions. It says to dissolve the shellac in boiling ethanol. But then what do you do could some one plz help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well, what do you think it means? Intuition goes a long way in staying safe and having fun in pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 With the green star formula barium nitrate...7potassium chlorate...7shellac...2How do you make the stars because I cant remember where I got this formula from but it had some short directions. It says to dissolve the shellac in boiling ethanol. But then what do you do could some one plz help I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you can't figure out simple directions for making stars, you should NOT BE USING CHLORATES.You need to do a lot more learning and research. Anyway, I made that formula years ago. The alcohol does not need to be boiling. The shellac will dissolve (slower)at room temp, but still perform its function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggi96 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 far out why does everyone on this forum have to be so smart I wish I was a genius like you guys. Why can't I ever get a good answer. If u don't wanna answer then don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrogeorge Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 i dissolve shellac and red gum with acetone..not boiling acetone of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgoty Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Bonny doese have a point tho. When starting out you should be working exclusively with KNO3 based stars. With these you can get experience and hone your techniques in a safer sort of way. Moving on to chlorates you should start with bog standard comps and if you have any doubt about anything use another comp or go back to the kno3 until you are sure. As you know chlorates have compatibilty issues with a lot of things, there is very little room for error. We're not being smart arses, just don't want you to get burned. I must say, be stuffed if I would be tipping boiling alcohol on a chlorate mix wether they say its safe or not. Whats wrong with water and dextrin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 far out why does everyone on this forum have to be so smart I wish I was a genius like you guys. Why can't I ever get a good answer. If u don't wanna answer then don't.The question surprises me. You've been registered on APC nearly a year, so you must have read hundreds of posts on here about how to make stars - maybe not these particular ones, but enough to pick up on the general techniques and extrapolate. This sounds like a hundred year old formula and there are much safer and better ones around now, but for what it's worth, I would dissolve the shellac in ethanol - boiling or not, but do NOT heat it anywhere near an open flame! - and after it cools let enough alcohol evaporate for it to thicken up a bit, then work it into the screened dry ingredients, cut or pump the stars, and let the ethanol evaporate on its own on a drying rack in the open air. However, 200+ years of experience with potassium chlorate teaches that a person can get badly hurt or killed when working with it even when they think they're doing everything right, so personally I'd discourage you from making this formula for your own safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Chance are the formula came from Kentish. The boiling solution is not added to the composition. It is boiled to assist in dissolving the shellac, or perhaps make a super saturated solution. It is cooled before use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I found it. It's a Weingart green lance compound, therefore wouldn't make very good stars anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggi96 Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 I have just got into making coloured stars the only stars i have made are blackpowder based ones and i want to step up and make some coloured ones. The question surprises me. You've been registered on APC nearly a year, so you must have read hundreds of posts on here about how to make stars - maybe not these particular ones, but enough to pick up on the general techniques and extrapolate. This sounds like a hundred year old formula and there are much safer and better ones around now, but for what it's worth, I would dissolve the shellac in ethanol - boiling or not, but do NOT heat it anywhere near an open flame! - and after it cools let enough alcohol evaporate for it to thicken up a bit, then work it into the screened dry ingredients, cut or pump the stars, and let the ethanol evaporate on its own on a drying rack in the open air. However, 200+ years of experience with potassium chlorate teaches that a person can get badly hurt or killed when working with it even when they think they're doing everything right, so personally I'd discourage you from making this formula for your own safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggi96 Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 could some one give me a safe green star composition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 could some one give me a safe green star composition Take a look in the formula section. The Veline stars are not the best but the green and red are pretty good.See here: http://www.pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Veline_color_system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Ok eggi, sorry, I didn't mean to offend. Whatever green formula you use will contain barium, which is poisonous, so wear gloves and a dust mask and clean up well afterward. Unfortunately the very best greens use barium chlorate, which is even more sensitive than potassium chlorate, and even the professionals hesitate to use it. Veline is a good general purpose color system that satisfies most purposes and doesn't need many chemicals. However, barium nitrate stars like Veline Green are quite hard to light and need extra priming - I found some silicon in the prime makes it more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Peret, Not so, Barium Carbonate is not toxic to ingest. Green Metallic Fueled Star:Name: Green Parlon (Non-Toxic)Source: Ned Gorski Chemical Name: Parts: Weigh:Potassium Perchlorate 30Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 30Barium Carbonate 20Parlon 15Red Gum 5 Edited February 27, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The question was what green star formula is safe? None, no star formula is "safe" I may be splitting hairs but everything we do in this hobby has hazards, take proper precautions and you can work with anything. I really like Barium Nitrate green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I hate to argue Dagabu (or with Ned), but barium carbonate is nearly as toxic when ingested as barium nitrate or chlorate. It may not be as hazardous with skin contact, but even that source of contact is somewhat minimized with barium nitrate. I don't have inhalation values on hand, but I'd imagine they're similar to one another. According to the JT Baker MSDS sheets Barium Carbonate has an oral LD50 of 418 mg/kg, vs 355 mg/kg for barium nitrate in rats. http://www.jtbaker.c...hhtml/b0348.htmhttp://www.jtbaker.c...hhtml/b0432.htm Barium carbonate is turned rapidly into the soluble (and thus far more toxic) barium chloride in one's stomach. There are additional absorption pathways in the lungs. To my knowledge, the only moderately safe barium salt is barium sulfate. This being said, with proper precautions such as gloves and a respirator, the dangers are really minimized. You can always take a shot of epsom salts afterward to combat any ill effects. You may be spending some time in the bathroom afterwards though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Sorry everyone, I screwed that one up, it was Barium Sulfate I was thinking about. Thanks Mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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