plener Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 anyone out there play with nano copper for blue stars or nano ink?im in the early stages of creating a blue star comp using potassium nitrate as the oxidizer, corn starch and shellac for fuel and a copper compound for color. i have done weeks of net research on creating blue stars most if not all discourage potassium nitrate as the oxidizer, I am really just playing around with this concept but something tells me if i can get the copper compound on the nano scale it might be doable--corn starch since it is easily available and shellac since i have some dryed flake on hand--potassium nitrate since it really is inexpensive and not as dangerous to use as the chlorates and perchlorates--i think i found a supplier of nano copper and a researching nano cuO which seems to be available.-- im going to try to get some nano copper treated wood to use as a fuel--anywhat thanks for listening and any comments really are appreciated peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 It's not that potassium nitrate is discouraged for blues, it's that nitrate cannot make blues. Perchlorate or chlorate is required. As a beginner you should stay far away from chlorate, so potassium perchlorate is your best bet. Keep researching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plener Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 i agree about chlorates--been playing with them for over 50 years--they do not forgive mistakes--i know about the temperature requirements about blues but i felt i was worth some experimenting--just usd some barium chlorate corn starch mixture--very aggresive much more than i expected--corn starch is nice--very little smoke and sparks thanksfor the reply It's not that potassium nitrate is discouraged for blues, it's that nitrate cannot make blues. Perchlorate or chlorate is required. As a beginner you should stay far away from chlorate, so potassium perchlorate is your best bet. Keep researching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 i agree about chlorates--been playing with them for over 50 years--they do not forgive mistakes--i know about the temperature requirements about blues but i felt i was worth some experimenting--just usd some barium chlorate corn starch mixture--very aggresive much more than i expected--corn starch is nice--very little smoke and sparks thanksfor the reply Hi plener, If you're determined to make nitrate based blues, I know it can be done with lead nitrate. It can be done, I didn't say it should be done. Chlorates can make very nice blues, but nano copper with chlorate sounds like poking a tiger with a sharp stick (not a good idea). Good luck with the nano copper/KNO3 experiments. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plener Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hi plener, If you're determined to make nitrate based blues, I know it can be done with lead nitrate. It can be done, I didn't say it should be done. Chlorates can make very nice blues, but nano copper with chlorate sounds like poking a tiger with a sharp stick (not a good idea). Good luck with the nano copper/KNO3 experiments. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plener Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 thanks for your reply i really appreciate it--the more i study pyro ( more than 50 years) i keep coming to the same conclusion--chlorates are a friend of the devil but they really work--smoke makes star colors muddy--i keep thinking of maybe the entire chemistry has to change to get crisp sharp intense colors--maybe some thing ike nitrocellulose as the fuel and oxidizer--i recognize the colorant chemistry would have to change--maybe encapsulating it into intensely colored plastic spheres with only white producing compositions in side----i recognize that plastic spheres might nt be a good thing to have flying around--it is just a thaught once again thanks for your replypeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 NC based stars have been researched and developed, specifically for indoor pyrotechnics. It's done is a fairly conventional manner, no spheres to color the light or anything. I've heard rumors that potassium nitrate based blue stars are possible, but the details are very limited. Good luck, and let us know how it pans out. I think the first hurdle you're going to have to cross is getting some chlorine into that mix. Otherwise you'll probably end up with green or red-ish stars at best. I would be worried that starch or wood would impart too much carbon into the flame to really be acceptable in a blue star. As I mentioned before with the chlorine requirement, using a chlorinated fuel like saran or PVC might be one direction to investigate. Parlon isn't a very good fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plener Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 what does nc stand for ( none chlorate?) once again i really appreciate your help on this--im beginning to understand that pyro is a well established profession with tons of research--i really am biased as for me pyro was alwasys foolin around--i know also realized that a lot of foolin around has ben done by people who i am walking in their footstepstake carepeter NC based stars have been researched and developed, specifically for indoor pyrotechnics. It's done is a fairly conventional manner, no spheres to color the light or anything. I've heard rumors that potassium nitrate based blue stars are possible, but the details are very limited. Good luck, and let us know how it pans out. I think the first hurdle you're going to have to cross is getting some chlorine into that mix. Otherwise you'll probably end up with green or red-ish stars at best. I would be worried that starch or wood would impart too much carbon into the flame to really be acceptable in a blue star. As I mentioned before with the chlorine requirement, using a chlorinated fuel like saran or PVC might be one direction to investigate. Parlon isn't a very good fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) NC: Nitrocellulose. It is the primary chemical used in smokeless gunpowder, as well as a plastic used in ping pong balls, nail polish, guitar picks, etc. In fireworks it is sometimes used as a binder soluble in acetone. This is favorable for compositions that should not be exposed to water. Nitrocellulose is also the most common coating put on visco fuse to make it waterproof. http://www.grassrootsdiy.com/NC.htm Edited January 24, 2011 by NightHawkInLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loris94 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 all i found about kno3 blues star Potassium nitrate.................................40 Sulfur............................................12 Mealpowder........................................40 Copper-ammonium nitrate...........................30 Charcoal..........................................10 Rosin.............................................5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 all i found about kno3 blues star Potassium nitrate.................................40 Sulfur............................................12 Mealpowder........................................40 Copper-ammonium nitrate...........................30 Charcoal..........................................10 Rosin.............................................5 I think that blues are certainly achievable with KNO3 but that formulla has no chlorine donor so will not give good colour through basic fiddling around I know for a fact that blues can be made with potassium nitrate as the oxidiser I got a blue colour emmited weather it would work as a star or not I dont know. The other option for a nitrate based blue star is to use caesium nitrate though not sure if you want to burn a whole that big in your wallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Its not KNO3 but Willydog thinks it works for him. 59 Potassium Perchlorate 16 Red Gum 10 Copper Carbonate 11 Parlon 4 Dextrin -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Ralph, you don't always need CuCl to make blue. There are a few other emitters that go in the blue range. I can't find a good reference, but I have heard that copper sulfide makes a good blue emitter. They were all chlorate based, so who knows what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Ralph, you don't always need CuCl to make blue. There are a few other emitters that go in the blue range. I can't find a good reference, but I have heard that copper sulfide makes a good blue emitter. They were all chlorate based, so who knows what was going on. Does Copper Oxychloride work in blue formulas? I have a crap load of it and I will never make enough whistle to use it all up. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Some people speak highly of blues using copper oxychloride. I bought some myself two months ago to try it out, but I haven't opened the bag yet. Here's one formula I've collected - Lancaster - Potassium Chlorate 68Copper Oxychloride 12Hexachlorobenzine 10Colophony resin 6Dextrin 4 The non-availability of HCB makes it a bit impractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Does Copper Oxychloride work in blue formulas? I have a crap load of it and I will never make enough whistle to use it all up. -dag Its sure dose a couple of us Locals down here are trying to tune in a perfect formula with it (many of the the ones posted with oxychloride are a bit poo) but it certainly dose give a good blue and at the insane price it can be baught at its definetly worth the experimenting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Its sure dose a couple of us Locals down here are trying to tune in a perfect formula with it (many of the the ones posted with oxychloride are a bit poo) but it certainly dose give a good blue and at the insane price it can be baught at its definetly worth the experimenting I got a good deal on mine so I got quite a bit of it to play with, any word on the comps yet? -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I got a good deal on mine so I got quite a bit of it to play with, any word on the comps yet? -dag I did some work a while back(more than a year) and just handed my working notes over to another guy (who seems to be using them) the colour was quite deep brightness wasnt bad once exams are over I might star it up again but this time will use PVC instead of parlon http://www.pyrobin.com/files/blue%20star%20test.jpg The star is a 1/4" cut star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I dont know if this is any help, but it seems that a zinc star produces a slight blue color. ( like in zinc spreaders) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hardt has several blue formulas containing copper oxychloride, including one with PVC. You may want to look into that as a jump off point. Hardt Blue #6 is one of the more touted one from Bill Ofca's thread on passfire right now. Mike Swisher also gave this formula: Potash 65 Copper oxychloride 12-1/2 Lactose 12-1/2 Saran 5 Dextrine 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hardt has several blue formulas containing copper oxychloride, including one with PVC. You may want to look into that as a jump off point. Hardt Blue #6 is one of the more touted one from Bill Ofca's thread on passfire right now. Mike Swisher also gave this formula: Potash 65 Copper oxychloride 12-1/2 Lactose 12-1/2 Saran 5 Dextrine 5 patash = chlorate in this case ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 patash = chlorate in this case ? yep Mike always refers to Potasium Chlorate as "Potash" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hardt has several blue formulas containing copper oxychloride, including one with PVC. You may want to look into that as a jump off point. Hardt Blue #6 is one of the more touted one from Bill Ofca's thread on passfire right now. Mike Swisher also gave this formula: Potash 65 Copper oxychloride 12-1/2 Lactose 12-1/2 Saran 5 Dextrine 5 Dang.... I really don't like to use chlorate. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Formula 6 from Hardt is Perchlorate based, with a large proportion of sulfur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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