Ball Mill Motors

[pyrokid]

Hey Guys

 

My Harbor freight mill jar has become lopsided so it is time to upgrade a little bit. I am thinking I want to build my own.

 

My trouble is: there are tons of different manufacturers and brands of motors out there. Which one should I get?

 

The design I am aiming for is a pully driven system with an idler bar and the capability to switch between 3 and 4 inch jars. I figure, cash is tight, so I can't spend too much on media right now. I have enough for a 3 inch jar but I think a 4 inch would be undercharged.

 

Are my plans straight so far?

 

The motor that looks good to me is this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item3a4cf776ce

 

Additional specifications:

 

http://www.hallmarki...pdf/MD0502C.pdf

 

I see motors with seemingly identical specs for 300-800 dollars. What's up? From what I've read,1/4 hp 1750 rpm is about what you need for a 4 inch mill.

 

 

Now I am no electrician or woodworker(I can put a rack together and build the frame for the mill though,) so I am asking you more experienced members your opinion on this. The above model is about 70 dollars shipped to my door. I think I could pick up a comparable one at harbor freight for about 110 with a lifetime warranty. I operate on a very low budget, so I am very afraid of throwing my money down the drain on a cheap motor. I understand if this is one of those things that you can't cheap out on.

 

Would I need lifters in the 3" PVC jar? If so, what are they typically made of? I understand you can increase the rpms a little bit to compensate for not having them.

 

Is there anything I'm missing?

 

 

Thanks,

Andy

[ausgoty]

I use a washing machine motor, cost me $10.00 at the local junkyard.

 

These are a good motor for ball milling, they are designed to operate under load for long periods, sometimes multi speed and reverable to boot!

 

They are supposed to be wired with a starting capacitor, but I could never work this out, so I just plug it in and spin (hand) it in the direction I want it to go.

 

Great motor.

[killforfood]

I use a washing machine motor, cost me $10.00 at the local junkyard.

I'm with ausgoty on this one. Your money will go a lot further at your local scrap yard. Shipping alone will probably be around $30 for the FleaBay motor. I scrounged my motor off of an industrial pedastal fan that they tossed in the trash at work. Free to me is a very good price.

If you are stuck on the FleaBay motor:

The good, It has dual mounting options and standard 5/8" pulleys should fit the output shaft.

The bad, I don't like that it's been whacked hard enough to crack the rear cover. This could cause the brushes to be miss-aligned. The 90 volt DC rating is a little odd. You will need an AC to DC power supply and motor controller to make this work correctly. If you get the correct convertor, You could control RPM's with a reostat (that would be cool).

Do a google search on Sponenberg ball mills. Pay special attention to jar diameter vs RPM. It makes a world of efficiency difference. Once I got my pully ratios correct, it cut my milling times in half.

 

Spelling correction, Lloyd Sponenburgh

Edited January 9, 2011 by killforfood

[Carbon796]

I use a washing machine motor, cost me $10.00 at the local junkyard.

 

These are a good motor for ball milling, they are designed to operate under load for long periods, sometimes multi speed and reverable to boot!

 

They are supposed to be wired with a starting capacitor, but I could never work this out, so I just plug it in and spin (hand) it in the direction I want it to go.

 

Great motor.

 

Ausgoty, your motor should have a pair of wires that are the same color. These are the capacitor start/run wires. The name rating plate should spec - out the capacitor value.

[Bonny]

I scrounged my motor off of an industrial pedastal fan that they tossed in the trash at work. Free to me is a very good price.

 

Have you ever had issues with the motor overheating? Usually fan motors need the cooling provided by the fan's airflow. I use unit heater fan motors and add a cooling fan (or run it outside in sub zero temps).

[killforfood]

Have you ever had issues with the motor overheating? Usually fan motors need the cooling provided by the fan's airflow. I use unit heater fan motors and add a cooling fan (or run it outside in sub zero temps).

Not so far, but good point. The load on my ball mill is so light compared to pushing a fan that the amps stay low and not a lot of heat is generated.

[superscifi12]

I am building a ball mill and got a squirrel cage fan from a furnace. The fan is driven by a belt and pulley with a center shaft that the fan bolts to.

 

and to the op I would stay clear of that one as it is DC instead of AC so you would need a power converter that is 90v 2.9A to run it but they usually have higher start up needs.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I want to build a larger ball mill soon. From what I´ve heard and experienced washing machine and drier motors are NOT suitable for hours of continuous operation and tend to overheat pretty fast.

 

What kind of motor is a good choice? A geared one?

[guntoteninfadel]

May not be for everybody but powered rollers from conveyors work great for me. Easy, cheap, dependable and flexible. I can turn my old HF jar as well as 4,6and 8" jars fine. Working on a monster 12" like OG has. For less than 50.00 I have enough material to build 3 mills. With two 12v car batteries it is completely grid free and portable!

 

Just sayin.

[oldguy]

TEFC motor = Totaly Enclosed Fan Cooled is the SAFE type motor.

Others with exposed electrical wiring, connections or circuits are prone to IGNITE flamable, deflagrating or explosive powders.

Not if, but when you have a spill

 

Larger HP motors are better than smaller, as they carry a load better & run cooler.

A ball mill load of numerious type comps, is a bomb waiting to happen.

Best prevention is to invest the bucks & build one safe as possible.

 

I would rather the safe, than sorry.

[mike_au]

What kind of motor is a good choice? A geared one?

 

Check scrap yards for industrial equipment. Mine is (from memory) 1/2hp, fan cooled and it came off some machine that looked like it might have been used for wrapping/strapping pallets/boxes. It runs for hours without even getting warm.

[Col]

I`ll echo Oldguy`s comments, a beefy TEFC motor is the way to go.

There`s a few other things to consider when choosing a motor, The motors IP rating (ingress protection) is quite important as it`s likely to be used outdoors, ideally you want IP64 or better (dust tight and immune to splashes of water from all directions). IP Ratings

The motors insulation class. If you run a motor too hot, you shorten its life expectancy by as much as half for every 10C above its maximum operating temperature.. Most motors have class "B" insulation or a maximum operating temperature 130C or 266F. Class F is 155C or 311F. Insulation Class

Edited September 5, 2011 by Col

[oldguy]

If you watch EBAY, you can often buy a brand new 1/2 or 3/4 HP single phase TEFC motor (around 1750 RPM) with a floor mount from $50 to $150 bucks + shipping.

Well worth the money for a ball mill.

[ribrown]

What do you think of this motor? 3450 RPM, 1/3 HP

http://www.harborfre...nder-94186.html

Edited January 3, 2012 by ribrown

[killforfood]

What do you think of this motor? 3450 RPM, 1/3 HP

http://www.harborfre...nder-94186.html

RPM's are too high. Take old Guys advice and buy TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motor.

1750rpm's is what you want.

[killforfood]

What do you think of this motor? 3450 RPM, 1/3 HP

http://www.harborfre...nder-94186.html

Ribrown,

I just noticed that this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.

Here's some links for you to peruse.

 

QC Supply

 

Electric Motor Warehouse

 

DONMARKL

 

If these are to rich for your blood, at least you'll know what to scrounge for.

[oldguy]

Watch eBay, sometimes you can find a new one for CHEAP

 

Below links are not exactly cheap put all are good.

 

More HP is better as it will run cooler.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-HP-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-1800-56C-SINGLE-PHASE-TEFC-/290646818412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43abe67e6c

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-2-HP-Electric-Motor-1800-56C-115-208-230-TEFC-/180776669101?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a17210fad

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRIC-MOTOR-56Frame-3-4HP-1800RPM-115-208-230V-TEFC-/250878922559?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a698c8f3f

 

 

[ribrown]

Much thanks to you both! Yes I'm new to the fourm and new to fireworks hobbying. I've set up class c displays for years but want to move up to making my own, so a ball mill is my first project.

[oldguy]

Much thanks to you both! Yes I'm new to the fourm and new to fireworks hobbying. I've set up class c displays for years but want to move up to making my own, so a ball mill is my first project.

 

There are a few critical decisions you have to make before building a ball mill for pyro use.

 

Obviously, a ball mill requires a jar or jars & enough grinding media to fill one or several 50%.

 

Jar size dictates the amount of grinding media you will need.

 

Grinding media often costs as much as the mill (sometimes more).

 

 

So, there are a lot of variables to consider before you start building your own.

 

 

A harbor freight 3 or 6 lb mill isn’t expensive & will get you started.

 

You might ponder buying one, then do some milling to get the hang of it, before building your own.

 

 

[Col]

RPM's are too high. Take old Guys advice and buy TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motor.

1750rpm's is what you want.

 

I wouldn`t write off a high rpm motor if its at the right price. It could cost a bit more to gear down but you`d also have more torque than a slower motor of equal horsepower. Having said that, a tefc motor of any speed is better than converting a bench grinder into a mill

Edited January 3, 2012 by Col

[ribrown]

Thanks for all the advice fellas. What do you all think of this motor?

 

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/2780280664.html

[oldguy]

It's USED, keep an eye open & you can often find a BRAND NEW one @ the same price.

[ribrown]

Guy tells me it's never been used, only taken off a drill press to be replaced with a 3 Phase motor. He says he'll take 50 for it. But what do you think about it's characteristics and specs? I notice that it dosen't have a mounting plate. Would this motor be hard to mount on plywood?

 

Thanks for the responces everyone!

Rick

[Mumbles]

I'd honestly be really tempted to snatch that up. The price is definitely good, and all the characteristics seem good. 1phase 110/115/120V at around 1700rpm is all pretty standard for what we want to run it off a standard wall socket. A 2" pully on the motor and 6" pully on the driven roller will get you in the vicinity of the speed you want depending on how big your rollers are.