Mumbles Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Funny thing, but the Push for Green or organic Products may produce cheaper Nitrates in the end..Alot of research is being done in micro Ammonia production..To make use of Off peak power production and to create green fertilizer. Making Ammonia from Wind or solar Electricity is coming to fill the demand for Organic fertilizer..Or at least carbon Neutral not sure what defines Organic But making it Directly From wind and Water sounds pretty green to me. At least it would allow vegans to eat without buying a Petroleum product or supporting animal enslavement for their poo.. Chemical fertilizers are chemical fertilizers no matter where the energy comes from. Unless you invent a magic butterfly that can split nitrogen, no one will call it "organic". Most ammonia producers are typically located near sources of cheap electricty, notably nuclear power plants. Vegans would fit nicely with the "smugly pleased" prius owners I mentioned earlier. ALL phosphate minerals, a material required for all known life forms, come originally from animal sources. "organic" food is a load of BS anyway. It's mostly just finding alternative "natural" sources for the raw chemicals we already use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 In ye Olde Dayes, saltpeter was produced by bacterial action on organic waste, pretty much the same process as if you plow manure into a field but more concentrated. It was illegal in most places to lay a stone floor in your stable or dove cote, since urine and droppings soaking into an earth floor was the necessary first step. I think that would meet the accepted definition of "organic", though I can foresee a little problem with the Neighborhood Association if you set up an organic saltpeter facility in your back yard today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 In ye Olde Dayes, saltpeter was produced by bacterial action on organic waste, pretty much the same process as if you plow manure into a field but more concentrated. It was illegal in most places to lay a stone floor in your stable or dove cote, since urine and droppings soaking into an earth floor was the necessary first step. I think that would meet the accepted definition of "organic", though I can foresee a little problem with the Neighborhood Association if you set up an organic saltpeter facility in your back yard today. The sticker shock continues... the other day I noticed the $14 bag of KCl (40 lb of sodium-free water softener salt) last month, is now $20 at the same store. Even if I make perchlorates or nitrates, I'm going to need potassium salts to make the KNO3 or KClO4 I want to use!!! Aargh! I was thinking I could make nitric acid with a high voltage arc in a quartz glass tube with a slow air feed and a distilled water wash, downstream. I still need to get an affordable source of an alkaline potassium salt to make potassium nitrate. Any thoughts? WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Purity may be questionable, but potash is about as cheap as it comes. Potassium Carbonate. You can get fairly pure forms of potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate for soap making. Even then if you consider the nitric acid free, the cost of either of those would probably be 2x as much as the going rate for potassium nitrate. Ceramic grade potassium carbonate, sometimes called pearl ash, is probably going to run you around $1 a pound and likely be pure enough. Fertilizer grade potash should hopefully be much much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Commodities spiked again this season, being led as they have in the past six years by a fairly dramatic hike in the "value" of corn. And a bad year in Columbia has driven up wholesale coffee prices by a buck a pound which will translate easily to a two-bucks/lb. increase at the store. Other words, if we think chem prices are bad today, just wait till tomorrow. Oh and I went to my local farm supply outlet (admittedly in response to this thread) and asked if they still carried the 50lb. sacks of Champion Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer I used to buy. "You know the one with the Boston Bull Terrier on the label?" "We can't get that anymore; they use it to make explosives." In the next breath he mentionedOklahoma City but I decided not to correct him in his stupidity lest he write my name down on a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBluePyro Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have sort of flicked through the thread and not completely read it, but I'm pretty sick of all the 'organic' and 'natural' food bullshit.Here in Aus, I think Coles is only selling meat that contains no hormones and every retard thinks it is better for them and there was some shithead on TV who said farmers are getting rich and we [people who eat the meat] are eating shit!That is a load of bull, farmers are not making money right now, if anything most farmers are loosing money. AGHH, just pisses me off when people think they know everything and yet they are so uneducated on the subject. </rant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Purity may be questionable, but potash is about as cheap as it comes. Potassium Carbonate. You can get fairly pure forms of potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate for soap making. Even then if you consider the nitric acid free, the cost of either of those would probably be 2x as much as the going rate for potassium nitrate. Ceramic grade potassium carbonate, sometimes called pearl ash, is probably going to run you around $1 a pound and likely be pure enough. Fertilizer grade potash should hopefully be much much cheaper. Hi Mumbles, The purity I can deal with. If potassium carbonate is a lot cheaper than nitrate ($1.10/lb for fertilizer potassium nitrate at the moment!) then I might have to get some. The soap makers and ceramics supplies may be the only place to get reasonable quality potassium alkaline materials, but we need to watch the prices closely. What a disappointment! We thought we'd always have low cost potassium nitrate available. I've been very naive I guess. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunzway Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The soap makers and ceramics supplies may be the only place to get reasonable quality potassium alkaline materials, but we need to watch the prices closely. Take a look at industrial suppliers, the ones who are likely to be supplying the soap makers/ceramic suppliers. You would want decent quantity with such a product anyway; might as well cut the middle man out. I've been able to source such potassium products at very cheap prices in comparison to KNO3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Take a look at industrial suppliers, the ones who are likely to be supplying the soap makers/ceramic suppliers. You would want decent quantity with such a product anyway; might as well cut the middle man out. I've been able to source such potassium products at very cheap prices in comparison to KNO3. Hi Gunzway, I'm all ears, where (if it's a secret you can PM me)? If it's a US source and affordable shipping is available, Excellent!!! Thanks for sharing. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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