bmarley5780 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 -Are cardboard end discs ok to use/make for shells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty green flame Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 -Are cardboard end discs ok to use/make for shells? Yes, actually, cardboard is the only thing that is used for end discs on canister shells, something like wood or plastic wouldn't be nice as this stuff falls down from the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmarley5780 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 So for your canisters you find cardboard thats around 1/8" thick a suitable alternative to the chipboard / kraft end discs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I think PGF was including all products made from paper in his generalization. I have seen other products being used, namely a product called "hardboard". Think the wood panel on the back of clipboards. As far as Kraft vs. Chip vs. Binder board(like book covers) vs. ragboard, I see no difference. To me they are all relatively the same as far as performance. Burst, packing, and overall construction are FAR more important. I have seen people use cardboard before. I believe Al93535 uses it as opposed to commercially produced disks. I think the key is to find a cardboard with minimal corrigation. If I remember correctly, flat rate shipping boxes are don't have much corrigation, and are reasonably stiff. Probably two glued together, or really just placing two in the shell, where you would place one "normal" disk should work. Back way back when, when I first got started, I made my own disks by gluing together 3 layers of soda box type material. The same comes from cereal boxes, some shoe boxes, etc. It is 1/40th (.025") thick. 3 layers gives approximatly 1/12" thick disks. If you're looking for some cheap commercial disks, check out Rich Wolter's site. He has excellent prices that are hard to beat at low quantity. They are also available in smaller sizes that normal, better suited to small shells if that is what you are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwezxc12 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I too, used four thicknesses of cereal box cardboard for end-disks in 4in and 6in cans. I used 50/50 white glue and water to glue down the flaps of the can and to double up the end-disks into two heavier disks.They work fine, just took a lot of scissor cutting...but you have to do something with all those empty rice crispy boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudidotdk Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I got a bunch of the greyish cardboard that's on the back of notepads. I will try a couple of these glued together.I think it might be the same as on the cereal box, only thicker and without glossy side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmarley5780 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 I think the notepad backs are thicker... I just cut 16 discs from cardboard...that crap is alredy old! I wonder if a die can be made to cut these things from cardboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyboy25 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 A die is probably more trouble then its worth unless you go into mass production or are making crossettes which each require a cardboard disk. I don't know why all of you go through the hassle of layering cereal boxes or the backs of notebooks I just use one piece of couragated cardboard the kind that make those big brown boxes you get in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I had bad luck with using normal corrigated cardboard. I think it really is too weak. I had issues with collapsing the corners as I was spiking. The few shells I fired with them all worked, in the sense that they survived the lift and opened, but not much more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentech Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I stopped making my own discs over a year ago when I found you could buy them cheaply for very high quality. Regular corrugated box cardboard is nowhere near rigid enough in a 4 or 6" shell. I think that a lift charge strong enough to loft that size shell would have a good chance of blowing right through corrugated board and causing a flowerpot. At one time I did make my own discs for crossette comets, using a punch and a mallet. from the chipboard used as a divider inside cases of bottled beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I'm with fozentech on this one. I've been fortunate to be able to be at the right place at the right time, and buy commercial end disks very cheaply. I figured it would be a right pain in the ass to make them, and when I cut a few for some 4" cans I was building, I discovered I was right! But really, all they are is a piece of punched chipboard, just like the back of a pad of paper (though usually a bit thicker). Like Mumbles said, it's how you wrap it all up that counts. Almost any decent substitute for a commercial end disk should work very well. bmarley, unless you have your own machine shop to make one, a good end-disk punch of the correct diameter might be hard to find, and will be expensive. Get to 4-inch-plus diameter and they're ridiculous. I think McMasters sells them, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 For crossette sized disks, they are reasonably priced. "Arch Punch" is the key term. Probably $10-15 a punch. I have seen cheap-o sets from china for around $30 for about 10 punches ranging from 1/4" up to 1" or a bit larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I've found one better than using an arch punch for small disks. It's a paper punch for scrap-booking sold under the "Whale of a punch" brand. I've got 3/4", 1-1/4", & 1-3/4" sizes, and they work great. If you do go the arch punch route, make sure to spend a few bucks on 'em unless you've got a lathe to true-up the end. The cheap ones that I bought originally required quite deep penetration in the backing board before the circle would be completely cut out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How much can one of those cut through. What I ask is if it would easily be able to handle, say 1/16th or 1/8" chipboard without much trouble? Do the blades ever need sharpening? I know paper can be kind of hard on steel blades. nice find though. Now to find a source for good thick chipboard. Hmmmm, I wonder who to talk to about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How thick, and how much do you want, Mumbles? My paper supplier has a variety of chipboard thicknesses available. I can deliver them to you at the May shoot if you want some. Up til now, I've only purchased 35-point from them, because that's all anyone's asked for (so far, anyway), but I'm fairly certain I can get 70 point and thicker. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How much can one of those cut through. What I ask is if it would easily be able to handle, say 1/16th or 1/8" chipboard without much trouble? Do the blades ever need sharpening? I know paper can be kind of hard on steel blades. nice find though. Now to find a source for good thick chipboard. Hmmmm, I wonder who to talk to about that. I have a small one from Micheals craft store for punching 1" disks. It works well, although my hand gets sore from hitting it ...and I have not tried on very thick cardboard. IIRC correctly you punch tin foil to sharpen the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How much can one of those cut through. What I ask is if it would easily be able to handle, say 1/16th or 1/8" chipboard without much trouble? Do the blades ever need sharpening? I know paper can be kind of hard on steel blades. nice find though. Now to find a source for good thick chipboard. Hmmmm, I wonder who to talk to about that. It'll punch through 1/16" binder board without any problem. I've probably cut ~500 discs with my 1-1/4" punch, and it shows no need for sharpening. Bonny is right, the instructions say to cut through some aluminum foil to sharpen the cutter then through some wax paper to lubricate. How cutting through aluminum foil sharpens the cutter I've no idea, but I've seen other punches mention the same procedure. In my office, we go through a ream of laser check stock about once every two days. There's a top sheet of cereal box thickness card stock on the top, and a thicker binder board sheet on the bottom. I have the secretary keep both sheets for me instead of tossing 'em out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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