fim canister mortar tute

[shagaKahn]

Made a little demo vid of my experiments with film canister mortar shells.

 

http://www.efn.org/~mikemcoo/filmCanisterDemo.html

 

Know that film canister shells must seem a bit candy-ass--especially on a big guns forum like this--but they've been a great entry for me into the chemistry and physics of shell building.

 

If you can endure sitting through the vid, I'd love y'all's advice and expertise on some of the finer points--like why the blue falling leaves didn't all ignite, and why the canister fuse didn't light on the final round.

 

For reference, my lift is some pretty fast homemade balsa charcoal BP, and my break charge is some not-so-fast polverone. Have had such good luck with green and red flying fish fuse-bits for stars, I've never had to prime anything to get it to light--but I wonder if that's why the (unprimed) blue falling leaves didn't all ignite.

 

The last round was the same break charge, but with a load of cremora/BP half and half (by volume). Have previously had pretty good tests with this mixture as a fuel air bomb--but as you'll see in the vid, it didn't ignite last nite.

 

Thanx y'all, for the width.

[frogy]

That's pretty nice...

 

I have never used a film-canister myself, but I have used many small homemade cylinder shells...

 

Great tutorial/walkthrough thing , Flying Fuse is pretty good for how cheap it is...

[shagaKahn]

Indeed. Bits of flying fish fuse is one of my favorite effects. (I can whip up a quick batch for firing out of my stargun--makes for a yummy low-altitude crazy-colors burst).

 

And hey froggers, what kind of amall stuff do you use for shells?

 

Notice Phil's General Store has small shells that that look exactly like easter eggs.

 

Meanwhile speak of bits of fuse used as stars, should I have primed my blue falling leaves pieces? It's weird how only two of them went off.

 

Know it's slower burning--I love that about it--but still there's no trouble getting it to light when I'm using it as a fuse.

 

Always just assume if I literally bury the fuse bits in break powder, they're bound to ignite. Obviously not so.

 

Kinda getting away from the tutorial topic--but has anyone ever tried the purple flying fish fuse at cannonfuse.com? Is it really purple? That would be choice.

[shagaKahn]

jezus, learn to spell:

 

"Hey froggers, what kind of --SMALL-- stuff do you use for shells?"

 

"amall" is the guy in the in the turban singing to the kid in the manger.

[WarezWally]

Film canisters are great for small shells, may I suggest to anyone who wants to make them, prime the visco by making a thick BP slurry and dip the visco into it. This way it should always ignite.

 

Film canisters also make for great salutes

[OneEyeCharlie]

ShagaKhan (man do I have a 80's song bumping through my head!):

 

Gonna fire off a bunch of film cannister shells tonight. A mix of flying fish and some scavenged dragon eggs. Several salutes. Maybe a few naptha charges for grins and giggles. Trying a few pumped stars too, but not gonna fess up to those until I see how well they did.

 

I'll try to empirically report on the results. Mixing up using hot glue, fiber tape, electrical tape, etc to see if it results in different breaks. I realize that F.C shells aren't on the same level as homemade Italian/Maltese shells, but given my chaotic work/home life; it's the best I can do.

 

Using slow flash as a break. Goex as lift.

 

Oldest daughter turns 13 today. Jeez do I feel old!

 

Happy New Year. Arghhhhhh!

 

Charlie

[shagaKahn]

Film canisters are great for small shells, may I suggest to anyone who wants to make them, prime the visco by making a thick BP slurry and dip the visco into it. This way it should always ignite.

 

Film canisters also make for great salutes

Good advice to prime the time-delay fuse. They're (usually) so good about lighting, I've never bothered--but that last failure on a canister full of cremora/bp mix was really disappointing.

 

I've got a little jug of NC lacquer. S'pose I could dip the fuse ends and then powder them with a little fast BP?

 

As for FC salutes, there's still my fave:

 

http://www.efn.org/~mikemcoo/filmCanisterSalute.html

 

Interesting how salutes filmed in daylight always have this six-pointed star pattern.

 

(Course wouldn't you know it soon as I turn the camera off and launch another one, it would break at least twice as loud).

[shagaKahn]

Gonna fire off a bunch of film cannister shells tonight. A mix of flying fish and some scavenged dragon eggs. Several salutes. Maybe a few naptha charges for grins and giggles. Trying a few pumped stars too, but not gonna fess up to those until I see how well they did.

 

I'll try to empirically report on the results. Mixing up using hot glue, fiber tape, electrical tape, etc to see if it results in different breaks. I realize that F.C shells aren't on the same level as homemade Italian/Maltese shells, but given my chaotic work/home life; it's the best I can do.

 

Using slow flash as a break. Goex as lift.

 

Charlie

Is kool. (So glad I ain't the only one here into FC shells).

 

Yu mention naptha charges, Charlie. As in, little bags of lighter fluid?

 

Have tried napthalene for fuel air bomb effect--but never with very good results.

 

(Mixed half'n half with BP, but could never tell that it was any more dramatic than just plain BP--and it stinks so badly I ain't tried it twice).

 

Is why I'm kinda stoked to get a good cremora effect.

 

And hey you mentioned "slow flash" for break.

 

Is that like with a less reactive Al than german black?

 

Only ever tried whistle as an alternative to straight BP for break--I'll have to try some flash.

 

This thread's turning out more fun than I thought.

 

Congrats on having a teenager. Your fun has just begun. "You wanna do WHAT with my daughter?..."

[hst45]

shaga, try this for fuse priming: angle cut the end with a set of anvil-cutting pruning shears. (Scissors-type cutters have bypassing blades, but an anvil cutter has a brass base plate and the actual cutting blade lands on this. It works WAY better than scissors since you can cut a very sharp angle on the fuse.) This opens up the core of the visco. Dip in your NC lacquer and cover with BP meal powder as WarezWally said and you'll have a very reliable fuse.

 

I'm a small-shell guy, and I'm a big fan of whistle as a "kicker" to my breaks. I make up a 100 gm. batch of whistle and use a few grams in the center of the shell. It seems easier to me than making up a tiny batch of flash every time I make a shell. I like making 2" ball shells since they use damned near no chems. and make a wonderful test bed to try different things. What's the worst that can happen; it blows blind and you're out, what, maybe $1.00 total? A good lesson learned on the cheap.

[asilentbob]

The more exposed surface area of prime going to the time fuse the more likely it is to get lit from the lift. Consequenty a smooth prime layer is harder to ignite than a rough layer. Generally I just put a fraction of a drop of very dilute NC laquer on the angle-split time fuse, then dip in meal powder like Hst.

[shagaKahn]

shaga, try this for fuse priming:  angle cut the end with a set of anvil-cutting pruning shears.  (Scissors-type cutters have bypassing blades, but an anvil cutter has a brass base plate and the actual cutting blade lands on this.  It works WAY better than scissors since you can cut a very sharp angle on the fuse.) This opens up the core of the visco.  Dip in your NC lacquer and cover with BP meal powder as WarezWally said and you'll have a very reliable fuse. 

 

I'm a small-shell guy, and I'm a big fan of whistle as a "kicker" to my breaks. I make up a 100 gm. batch of whistle and use a few grams in the center of the shell.  It seems easier to me than making up a tiny batch of flash every time I make a shell.  I like making 2" ball shells since they use damned near no chems. and make a wonderful test bed to try different things.  What's the worst that can happen; it blows blind and you're out, what, maybe $1.00 total?  A good lesson learned on the cheap.

Kool idea, hst--I mean anvil-cutting my visco.

 

Have had such great luck with this cheap chi-visco, I've never thought of priming--till that fail-to-light the other night.

 

Think it's cause it's uncoated and not waterproof that the fuse lights so readily.

 

And I hear you about small shells. Great way to test and perfect mixtures without expending a lot of resources.

 

Soon as I think I know what I'm doing with a mixture, it's back to the drawing board.

 

Got these kool Mg flakes that make a great crackle and flare when mixed with straight fast BP or slower polverone and lit in a test cup--but when ejected from a shell they hardly light at all.

 

Makes sense I guess--more concentrated heat in a cup, while there's lots of open and expaning airspace after a shell burst so the heat gets dispersed too fast to ignite them well.

 

Tried priming some Mg flakes last nite with NC lacquer and my fast lift BP, and they did seem to ignite better out of a shell--but they didn't crackle. Just burned kinda bright and slow. I want that crackle.

 

Thanx, hst, for the advice. You reminded me I've only tried whistle once for break powder. Need to give that another chance.

[shagaKahn]

The more exposed surface area of prime going to the time fuse the more likely it is to get lit from the lift. Consequenty a smooth prime layer is harder to ignite than a rough layer. Generally I just put a fraction of a drop of very dilute NC laquer on the angle-split time fuse, then dip in meal powder like Hst.

"Dilute" being the key word here.

 

Started priming all my time-delays last nite and noticed my lacquer had turned to molasses.

 

Now where's that acetone?...

 

(Thanx, silent bob).

 

Speak of cheap fx, just ordered a batch of PURPLE flying fish fuse from cannonFuse.com. Never seen it purple before; this should be a treat.

[hst45]

Speak of cheap fx, just ordered a batch of PURPLE flying fish fuse from cannonFuse.com.  Never seen it purple before; this should be a treat.

shaga, sorry to hijack your thread but that purple flying fish reference reminds me of something that might be of interest to you. Actually, I'ts my wife's favorite effect (she loves purple )

 

Easy as hell little endburner with a flying fish header: Cut a 1/2" I.D. tube to a length of 4". Put a piece of masking tape on one end (bottom), add one tablespoon cat litter, and hammer the hell out of it with the dowel or brass rod. Add good fast BP milled meal in about the same increments compacting it with hammer and dowel as you go. When you get to about 1/2" from the top, your motor is done. Drill a 5/32" hole in the plug just about 1/4" into the BP. Now tape a paper collar to the top of the motor that sticks up about an inch or so. Add some BP to the cavity in the top of the motor. Cut lengths of your purple flying fish fuse to about 1-1/2" and pack as many into the collar as fit comfortably. Add visco to motor, tape on stick, and you got an almost fool-proof little end-burner. Total elapsed time to make one is about three minutes eighteen seconds.

 

Depending or the speed of your BP meal, they should fly for about 3 or 4 seconds or so, then the BP will light the ends of the FF and kick them out of the header. If they take off a little lazilly, down size the drill size of the nozzle to 9/64th.

 

Sorry to bore you with this tutorial-within-a tutorial, but whenever I'm at the keyboard ordering supplies and the wife looks over my shoulder and sees what I'm doing, she always asks "Oh, can we order some of those purple fish?" "Yes, of course dear." Happy wife, happy life!

[shagaKahn]

Easy as hell little endburner with a flying fish header: Cut a 1/2" I.D. tube to a length of 4".  Put a piece of masking tape on one end (bottom), add one tablespoon cat litter, and hammer the hell out of it with  (cut)

Sorry to bore you with this tutorial-within-a tutorial, but whenever I'm at the keyboard ordering supplies and the wife looks over my shoulder and sees what I'm doing, she always asks "Oh, can we order some of those purple fish?"  "Yes, of course dear."  Happy wife, happy life!

Dood, this is hot. Ordered that purple flying fish fuse on a whim--but from your and the missus' enthusiasm I can see this is gonna be fun.

 

Got some majorly fast bp--wonder if this would work OK for your nozzled endburner?

 

Tend to mill my bp for hours--sometimes days--longer than usual just cause I like it hot like that--but now that I'm delving into rockets, I'm wondering if I need to back down a bit on the speed of the BP.

 

Phil (of his general store) suggested I slow down my 3fg equivalent bp with a little added charcoal--but we were talking about core rockets, not nozzle burners.

 

Am so stoked to try your trick. Now if that fuse would just hurry up and get here.

 

Thanx hst, for your concise and inspiring tute.

[hst45]

Got some majorly fast bp--wonder if this would work OK for your nozzled endburner? 

 

but now that I'm delving into rockets, I'm wondering if I need to back down a bit on the speed of the BP. 

Try it as-is and I bet it will work fine. The cool thing about these endburners is that you don't have to mill anything special. If it's too hot (salute-on-a-stick) just make the nozzle opening 1/64" larger. If it's still too hot, try Phil's idea, which will absolutely work, and has the benefit of increasing the "sparkyness" of the trail. His tubing works great for these, by the way, despite being spiral wound.

 

Personally I just use my standard 75/15/10 meal (no dextrin added) and I can either make rockets or BP. One word of caution; these things are addictive.

[ActiveA]

Good tut man, I'm getting 250ft of flying fish soon.

[shagaKahn]

Just wondering, active, where'd you find a 250ft increment of purple flying fish fuse?

 

Or is that just four 65ft increments?

 

(thanx)

[ActiveA]

Ummm its actually 5 lots of 50ft fuse.

 

Flying Fish

 

Its a good deal.

 

Its not purple though...Sorry If i misled you.

[shagaKahn]

Sweet deal--but it looks like UK only. Tuff luk, amerika.

 

Thanx ActiveA for the link; I've e'd them to see if they might be persuaded to ship to the states--and if it will come out cheaper than my current suppliers.

 

Best,

s

[ActiveA]

They ship to America.

 

 

They also ship to Australia.

 

[Mumbles]

Sweet deal--but it looks like UK only. Tuff luk, amerika.

 

Thanx ActiveA for the link; I've e'd them to see if they might be persuaded to ship to the states--and if it will come out cheaper than my current suppliers.

 

Best,

s

Free shipping to the US.

 

FYI, I think you need to look at cannonfuse.com as a new supplier if the UK site will be cheaper. I believe they have a US and UK base of operations, so it'd be coming from the US anyway. Cannon fuse is about half that price, but only available in the US.

[psyco_1322]

What do you guys use for film canister mortars? You buy special tubes or is there something that you can find OTC that works for them?

[shagaKahn]

Hey psyco,

 

For the first couple of months of my experimenting in this realm, I used a kool mortar built of 1.5" ABS. There's a tute at skylighter that acknowledges that ABS is not pyro-approved 'cause of the fragment issue--but it gives a pretty convincing argument for its use at this reduced level of pop.

 

The kool thing about the skyligher tute's design is that the mortar incorporates a cleanout trap at the base of the tube which is the perfect cup size to hold two or three grams of lift.

 

Bought all I needed for my first mortar at the local Home Pizpot for less than five bux.

 

The mortar in my tute at the start of this thread is HDPE and it came from pyrogear for two bucks + shipping.

 

(Tried locally to find HDPE in 1.5" ID and people just looked at me funny).

 

I'll do a quick photo set of my ABS mortar and post it toot sweet.

[shagaKahn]

Here's a link to some pix of my ABS film canister mortar.

 

You can see how the cleanout trap comes unscrewed. I just slip my film canister up into the base of the mortar, add a few grams of lift to that little bucket indent in the cleanout trap, slip a length of visco into the hole I drilled in the trap bucket and screw it back into the base of the mortar.

 

http://www.efn.org/~mikemcoo/absMortar.html

 

I've spared you the low tech flower pot with a hole in the bottom that I sit upside down and stick the mortar into so it can stand up on its own.

[shagaKahn]

She always asks "Oh, can we order some of those purple fish?"  "Yes, of course dear."  Happy wife, happy life!

Just got my first batch of purple flying fish from cannonfuse.com--super fast delivery BTW considering it was parcel post--but hey, they're anything but purple.

 

Have tried them at ground level and from twenty to fifty feet up with my stargun, and they "swim" wonderfully--but they're at best a nice orange.

 

The paint on the fuse is purple, but the fire sure ain't.

 

Am I missing something critical here?

 

Guy at cannonfuse did say somthing about them not looking purple on the ground but that they were definitely purple up in the air.

 

How high up in the air are we talking about?