Pryro Posted August 17 Author Posted August 17 Not even close to what I was talking about at all carbon, seriously , where that come from, oh not real, never claimed anything of the such, tired of the comments especially when you haven’t worked with any of it at all, traditional black powder has been around long time and today thier is commercial sugar replacement propellant that out preform it hands down, and I do have over 10 years with sugar propellants actually 16 years with working with it, traditional black powder will only get you so far in long range shooting with muzzle loading, data don’t lie, an have sugar added propellant that out preform traditional black powder all the way around, hours and hours a day after day on the bench an you learns a quiet a bit, and I’d never fool with making anything more than black powder or sugar added propellant, absolutely no need to do so, I only saying thier something to be brought to the table with it,and commercially they have been making sugar based propellants that out proforms traditional black powder an done so for years, I only took what I’ve learned and added to some of my pyro, I only ask has anyone else ever tried or worked with it, look at comments after that question,tired of not real comments
DavidF Posted August 17 Posted August 17 It seems that the court of public opinion has prosecuted sugar and found it guilty! The forum is maybe having a bad day(s). I think what was meant was 'Welcome. Please- tell us more about your experiments.'
Arthur Posted August 17 Posted August 17 I'm far from averse to people and projects and designs that push pyro forward -go do it please. However please give any project and product/recipe a good name NOT the name of something else. History will tell if something is good, history will establish names for recipes that are good. BUT established products need to keep their names and new products should NOT confuse or be confused with old products. Finally; Some things have come from a military need and are precisely defined, some comps for fireworks have been produced simpy for cheapness. Many an old firework is not reproducible because an ingredient was actually a waste product from another process. Most fireworks are designed and built round an annual date (4th July USA, 5th November UK etc.) not all fireworks function well after a year in storage. 1
Carbon796 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 It's exactly what you have NOT been saying. Read your own post I quoted above. You are also trying to compare apples to grapefruit. And, not apples to apples. All of your supposed advantages to using sugar in Black Powder. Are directly from Hodsons own triple seven advertising/marketing claims. Triple Seven, is a black powder substitute/propellant. Based on Gluconic Acid as a " sugar ". And not Sucrose. It is also KP & Benzonate based. It has also been shown to be out performed by a quality manufactured true Black Powder. This is a pyrotechnics/ fireworks forum. NOT a muzzle loading, cap & ball, or cartridge forum. Many of Hodsons advertising/advantage claims have zero impact, or advantages in pyrotechnics. In fact, most BP substitutes don't even preform well in pyrotechnics usage. Most of the time they are not even usable.
Carbon796 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 On 8/15/2025 at 10:55 PM, Pryro said: kinda works out like graphite does in the correct portions added to bp, except the charcoal speeds things up little Sugar is dissolveable in water. Graphite is not. It is quite hydrophobic. You are proposing to use sugar as an incorporated fuel in a BP formula. Graphite is not a usable incorporated fuel. But rather a coating on sporting grade powers. To facilitate its ease of use in reloading. Such as FFG Pyrotechnics uses blasting grade BP such as FFA. No graphite coating. If you want to be taken seriously on this forum. You need to provide real world information, that is accurate. And applicable to the actual forum subject, pyrotechnics.
Carbon796 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 19 hours ago, DavidF said: It seems that the court of public opinion has prosecuted sugar and found it guilty! The forum is maybe having a bad day(s). I think what was meant was 'Welcome. Please- tell us more about your experiments.' What are you talking about Dave. I'm having a great day. I love newbies that don't know, what they don't know, but think they do. Sugar isn't being prosecuted. Just misleading and inaccurate information. ; )
Richtee Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Carbon796 said: Sugar isn't being prosecuted. Just misleading and inaccurate information. ; ) I like sugar. Especially dusted on fresh strawberries Actually, with a dollop of sour cream as well. Hmm... wonder if... hahahaha! Edited August 17 by Richtee
Pryro Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 sweet black powder before I get flamed, I lable my canisters at milling weight IMG_0932.mov Burns well and very clean sweet black powder
Carbon796 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Couple pounds of paulownia 2FA. Couple pounds of polverone. Couple pounds of 8:3:2. Quite a few pounds of red stars. No sugar needed. Trough tests don't really provide any useful information. And have been shown to be inaccurate, for timing comparisons/data. For pyrotechnics use, a baseball test or rammed spolette time test. Would give you more information. To gage any potential improvements or lack there of.
Pryro Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 21 hours ago, Carbon796 said: Sugar is dissolveable in water. Graphite is not. It is quite hydrophobic. You are proposing to use sugar as an incorporated fuel in a BP formula. Graphite is not a usable incorporated fuel. But rather a coating on sporting grade powers. To facilitate its ease of use in reloading. Such as FFG Pyrotechnics uses blasting grade BP such as FFA. No graphite coating. If you want to be taken seriously on this forum. You need to provide real world information, that is accurate. And applicable to the actual forum subject, pyrotechnics. Only meant when small percentage of sugar base additive with the charcoal it works out when compounded together that the sugar doesn’t seem to have the hygroscopic effect, the charcoal helps with the small part or percentage of sugar when compounded together kinda in the way graphite does white charcoal, even in the effect of flow, but charcoal speeds up the sugar and sugar has lower ignition point with lots of gas pressure to be added, it does work, and for temporarily and or to stretch other material when low to get through the weekend or birthday party or spare moments things that I’ve been low on material several times, my guess we all have, I just was sign that sugar can be used and works very well and is in your house commonly and readily available, until other material can be ordered an gotten in, it does work an work very well, and I never said anything about using commercially made or commercial grade anything in pyro, it’s a common supply that can be used temp or a sub in spur moment things, all I was implying from first post, good luck carbon have wonderful an enlightening day
Pryro Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 I’ve spent hundred of hours over the years with baseballs an soft balls and a chronograph and working with every kind of chamber for pressure, velocity speed, height etc, and then I’ll even tune on it the bench, but again with the sugar, sweet gunpowder”. All I’ll I ask or tried to imply was that has anyone tried it that it does works and works well for quick sub or alternative, if running low on supplies, you got something on weekend’s birthday party, anniversary party or dinner, what ever the case , which I do quiet often for myself and other an have for years, but accusations that I’ve been low on materials, im sure we all have, whether it being willow, nitrate, dext or red gum exc, and that sugar is readily available at your house and it does work and work well for on spot moments, depending on what your doing or makeing of course but it does work, until you get supplies order and get them in and you have your standard, it was never ment as a permanent, just a quick step in when short or on spot situation, the formula I posted works, it’s not the best one I have by no means, no where near the fastest, but it works well all way around, it’s very clean burning, and it’s fast enough, an even smells good after burnt, sorta like sweet smell of race fuel at the drag strip, 35 years of racing, I love that smell, but when not machining in or working in my shop , I spend about all the rest my time and have for years working with black powder, and testing but no matter which way you go and what you do in life you will plateau if you except that, good luck!
Pryro Posted August 21 Author Posted August 21 When ball milling especially when humidity is up, I dry my charcoal in a dehydrator before milling, and sometimes I use of a pca sometimes, stearic acid at 1% of milling weight usually what I do, helps with cold welding and clumping, but can cause some carbon containment, be aware, depending on app , not sure off top of my head but I think stearic acid has an ignition point of around 190 c, but helps extend milling time and more even flow, they is member here with way more knowledgeable than me, just something I do when making sweet black powder, “sugar pop” friends an I that use it call it sugar pop, but I use it to make fuse - black match a lot, but usually sub poplar instead of willow to save on willow, willow is kinda hard to come by for me, but works out fairly well, but if thier something better or something I’m doing wrong in my process please confirm for everyone an let them know ,it’s just something I do, doesn’t meant it’s best or the correct way
Pryro Posted August 22 Author Posted August 22 Video of Fuse made with standard and sugar pop” sweet black powder” IMG_0999.mov
Pryro Posted August 22 Author Posted August 22 2 hours ago, Pryro said: When ball milling especially when humidity is up, I dry my charcoal in a dehydrator before milling, and sometimes I use of a pca sometimes, stearic acid at 1% of milling weight usually what I do, helps with cold welding and clumping, but can cause some carbon containment, be aware, depending on app , not sure off top of my head but I think stearic acid has an ignition point of around 190 c, but helps extend milling time and more even flow, they is member here with way more knowledgeable than me, just something I do when making sweet black powder, “sugar pop” friends an I that use it call it sugar pop, but I use it to make fuse - black match a lot, but usually sub poplar instead of willow to save on willow, willow is kinda hard to come by for me, but works out fairly well, but if thier something better or something I’m doing wrong in my process please confirm for everyone an let them know ,it’s just something I do, doesn’t meant it’s best or the correct way Apologies I dry all material in the dehydrator but mainly for the charcoal before ball milling
Pryro Posted August 22 Author Posted August 22 Another way I ball mill is wait on dehydrator an drying and mix the formula first, blend it together fairly well, then use denatured alcohol 200 proof, what is use, I don’t measure it, just sprinkle it in until gets little clumps and then brake them up with my hands, until back to powdery, do this couple times, and then I put it in dehydrator until dry, then mill, the denature alcohol “ethanol” is pca, but usually used in wet milling, but after drying after applied, the milling process still works pretty well
Pryro Posted August 24 Author Posted August 24 Have gotten a few emails an some questions on few things, so I’d thought I post a short video, it’s been raining last several days and humidity is up, an I’ve been ball milling hole time an made few batches with the sugar, was milled an granulated with humidity up all way through, an thought share the burn test, kinda answer few questions in one, IMG_1044.mov
Pryro Posted August 24 Author Posted August 24 5 hours ago, Pryro said: Have gotten a few emails an some questions on few things, so I’d thought I post a short video, it’s been raining last several days and humidity is up, an I’ve been ball milling hole time an made few batches with the sugar, was milled an granulated with humidity up all way through, an thought share the burn test, kinda answer few questions in one, IMG_1044.mov Humidity being over 125% for several days, through the process of being made
Pryro Posted August 26 Author Posted August 26 Had an interesting email about how would sugar pop do after several days with humidity been so high with all the rain, since the batch of sugar pop was made it now has had plenty of drying time and with that said the last several days with humidity been very high, around 140% , so I thought I’d post and share the video so those interested could see how it does, with several days with the humidity extremely high IMG_1246.mov Sugar pop with several days of rain 125% plus humidity
Pryro Posted August 31 Author Posted August 31 IMG_1457.mov Here one the faster formulas for 100 gram batch 72 potassium nitrate 12 willow 6 powder sugar 10 sulfur Answer email, this is one of the faster burn rate with with powder sugar, few faster but starts getting to erratic, this one I use and has punch to it
Pryro Posted August 31 Author Posted August 31 Big factor in all ball milling, put your formula in a dryer or dehydrator or dryer before milling, makes the all difference
Pryro Posted September 3 Author Posted September 3 On 8/31/2025 at 4:34 PM, Pryro said: IMG_1457.mov 19.98 MB · 0 downloads Here one the faster formulas for 100 gram batch 72 potassium nitrate 12 willow 6 powder sugar 10 sulfur Answer email, this is one of the faster burn rate with with powder sugar, few faster but starts getting to erratic, this one I use and has punch to it Yes it was 12.5” long 1/4 wide and deep burn line, thanks
Richtee Posted September 4 Posted September 4 Well.. in all honesty, I suppose that COULD constitute preponderance of evidence
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