Silent whistle

[psymon]

I have some problems with my whistle mix. I have Potassium Perchlorate technical grade 70% mixed with 30% Sodium Benzoate. However when I burn this pressed in tubes all I get is a powerful whoosh and orange/yellow flame without whistle.

Both chemicals are in air float powder and have been screened together several times. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make this whistle? Also how toxic are both of these chemicals? They both state they are harmful but how harmful are they?

Thanks for the help and sorry if this is in the wrong place!

[dragonman586]

I really haven't even gotten to whistle yet. (even though i have the chemicals). But from what I have been reading areound it seems that you need to press you whistle further. Most people use hydraulic or arbor presses to make the whistle noise. I may be wrong but if I am please correct me.

[psymon]

I use a 2 tonne arbor press. I press these things so hard i am on the point of splitting the tubes...

Maybe I should have mentioned.

[psymon]

Just worked it out... I mixed my chemicals at 70% perc to 30% Sodium Benzoate... However after adding a bit more Sodium Benzoate I managed to get an ear splitting whistle. It seems that I need to have around 40% Benzoate to get a whistle...

[optimus]

Are you leaving some of the end of the tube empty?

[psymon]

Yeah I understand you need to leave the tube about 1/2 full. It just seems like I didnt have enough Benzoate for a whistling reaction. Now time for some fun. I will make a few different sizes and let them off tonight to see what works best. Just one thing though, if I am making rockets should they be end burners or core burners with or without nozzles?

[Chaz]

I believe they should be end burners with no nozzle.

[BigBang]

For whistle rockets, using strait whisle mix, make endburners. Remember that a whistle over an inch in diameter might explode so be careful.

 

Press whisle rockets with the speific whistle mix containing petroleum jelly. This you can use for bigger rockets and use core burners instead of endburners.

 

Here'sa little something I found on whistles: http://uploadhut.com/view.php/60343.pdf

[kwstag]

Whistle Mix:

_________

 

Potassium Perchlorate/Sodium Benzoate

70/30 Ratio ^

_________

Whistle Mix, as the name implies, is most commonly used in pyrotechnic whistles.

Because of the fast burning speed in a loose state, it's also used in small shells as a bursting charge. Whistle mix will only whistle when solidly compressed into a thick-walled tube about 1/2 full.

The reason for filling the tube only 1/2 way is that the empty space above the mixture acts as a resonating cavity, essentially amplifying the whistle sound.

Whistle Mix is impact sensitive and should never be compacted with a hammer and drift.

Whistle Mix must be thoroughly mixed and screened several times to work well.

If packing the composition into a tube to make a whistle, it must be done only with a press.

Whistle Mix is also used in Whistle Rockets. For this application, a small amount (usually 1%) Red Iron Oxide is added, which increases the burning speed. A little Vaseline dissolved in solvent (such as Paint Thinner) is added to the mixture, pushed through a strainer to granulate, and set out to dry.

Once the solvent has evaporated, the mixture is pressed into a thick-walled tube with the top end plugged. Whistle Rockets do not require a nozzle.

If a long spark tail is desired, 10% granulated Titanium can be added to the mix.

[llamazares]

Notice for psymon:

 

You do not use sodium benzoate as fuel.

 

It uses potassium benzoate or sodium salicylate.

 

With sodium benzoate the whistle is very weak. I have it verified !

[delta_echo]

I've always made my whistle rockets with nozzles if the greatest distance/height is desired. Just for experimentation purposes I rammed a few rockets to see if a huge difference was achieved through pressing (don't worry, I was wearing a kevlar fragmentation vest, kevlar helmet w/ attached riot shield, boots, completely covered with cotton clothing, in addition to using a ramming rod that let me be about three feet above the unfinished rocket - I still don't recommend this method). I'll let you figure out the results for yourself. http://media.putfile.com/Whistle-Rockets

[murderskill]

Maybe its your tubes..

[Mumbles]

I've never had a problem getting Sodium Benzoate to work. If yours worked poorly, it is probably because it absorbed a lot of water.

[llamazares]

I am absolutly sure -because it I have tried several times- which with POTASSIUM BENZOATE the whistle is the most powerful that using sodium benzoate.

 

Tried this way:

 

Hydraulic press 10 Tm .

Between 2500/3000 PSI on the gauge, for both types of benzoate. Confirmed !

[Givat]

I got all the chems for whistle with pottasium chlorate, sodium salicilate and paraffin oil. But I don't got press =\

Isn't there is any way to make whistle sound with no press?

[aquaman]

I've been using a bench vice and it seems to work alright. If I had a press I bet the whistle would be much better. The only problem with a vice is that there is no blast shield so be careful.

[hashashan]

quest where did u get the sodium salicilate? never mind

ive tried this formula with soudium benzoate and potassium chlorate. used my press didnt get it to whislte

maybe i should use a nozzle? is there any chance that potassium chlorate + soudium benzoate will get to whistle?

[BigBang]

I've never heard of KClO3 being used with Na benzoates for whistles.

 

Try with PERchlorate and you should get a semidecent whistle. I've heard from a few people that sodium benzoates produces an inferior whistle, so you might want to try potosium benzoate instead of sodium.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

The only thing I can suggest is to mix the powder really good. It has to be a perfect intimate mixture...I had problems with this when I first started making them. I actually added a tad bit of charoal so i could see when it was all grey and then when pressed in a bench vise i got it to whistle.

[pa_pyro]

I wouldn't recommend using a nozzle, it might explode instead of whistling.

[shadopyro]

Talking about benzoates ans salicylates, does anyone nkow what their origin actually is? What i mean is is for example, at about what era did they start being used etc.

This probably is in the wrong section and delte as necessary but i recently started to get lil' bit interested in the origins of a few chemicals...

[cplmac]

Notice for psymon:

 

You do not use sodium benzoate as fuel.

 

It uses potassium benzoate or sodium salicylate.

 

With sodium benzoate the whistle is very weak. I have it verified !

Yup, 70 perch 30 sally. Sodium Salycitate that is.

[Givat]

I found salicylate whistle much more louder then the benzoate one. But this can be becouse I don't use press - I use my weight to press the whistle.

 

with the chlorate\salicylate whistle hand press is enogh:

http://hozt.net/video.php?vid=20060902222649665801.wmv

 

(6 m"m tube, 45 m"m long, 9:1 whistle mix:titanium, about 2-3 gram comp)

[cplmac]

What size are you pressing with your body weight? I don't think you can press anything from 2 pounders up without a press, but then again I never tried.

[hashashan]

he wrote that there are 2-3 grams there not pounds.

and even then the body weight may not be enough. i made some whistlers using K-nitrate+K-picrate and they started to whistle only after i pressed them with a press the other ones blew up with a nice bang.

for some reason i could get only one rocket to fly though. any suggestions why they dont fly?