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making potassium chlorate easily without electrolysis, bleach or weed killer


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#1 Scorpion812

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:25 PM

Hi everyone, 

so since potassium chlorate is very hard to get in europe, and if its sold, its expensive, i came up with the idea of making KClO3 from Barium chlorate, which is readily available. Has anyone ever gone through this process, and is it recommended? I thought of making solutions of Barium chlorate and KCl and mixing them to precipitate Potassium Chlorate.

 

What do you think?



#2 Mumbles

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:14 PM

Am I missing something, or do the last few posts have absolutely nothing to do with the original post?

 

I suppose you could make potassium chlorate from barium chlorate, but ultimately it seems sort of wasteful.  Barium chlorate is significantly harder to make and more expensive that potassium chlorate.  If successfully making a chlorate cell eludes you, or you have more money that time, then it could work though.

 

 

Edit.  Removed a couple of unrelated posts above.


Edited by Mumbles, 05 September 2017 - 03:51 PM.

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#3 Scorpion812

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 12:34 AM

Am I missing something, or do the last few posts have absolutely nothing to do with the original post?
 
I suppose you could make potassium chlorate from barium chlorate, but ultimately it seems sort of wasteful.  Barium chlorate is significantly harder to make and more expensive that potassium chlorate.  If successfully making a chlorate cell eludes you, or you have more money that time, then it could work though.


Well, you cant buy kclo3 in europe, you can buy kclo4, but at 40 euros a kg. But barium cblorate is sold for 56 euros for 5000g. I also am already building a leqd dioxide powered cell, so i will mainly use electrolysis, but i think this is also a considerable method if you need some kclo3 fast. Also, why is barium chlorate hard to handle?

#4 AustralianPyromaniac

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 04:37 AM

Where are you getting such cheap BaClO3 if I may ask Scorpion? I think it would be best to just electrolyze it because the difficulty of separating two soluble compounds is going to be the problem. But as mumbles said it would work. Although I think you would spend a lot more time making KClO3 via your method than just direct electrolysis if time is the issue. 

 

Regards, AP


Edited by AustralianPyromaniac, 05 September 2017 - 04:39 AM.


#5 Mumbles

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 04:50 PM

Barium Chlorate isn't particularly hard to handle.  It is however more sensitive that potassium chlorate, despite being a rather sluggish oxidizer.  It's harder to make due to a poorer current efficiency.  Potassium chlorate can be made in upwards of 90% or so current efficiency.  90% of the electrons go toward making chlorate, and are not lost in unproductive ways such as chlorine loss, oxygen production, etc.  With barium chlorate, this value is closer to ~50%.  I don't know how it's made industrially, but in small scale it's almost always synthesized from sodium chlorate or another chemical method as far as I'm aware.

 

I did see one reference stating that barium chlorate is less soluble in cold water than potassium chlorate, thus making the transformation you want to do impossible.  However, the numbers I saw as far as solubility data did not back this up.  

 

http://www.sciencema...Barium_chlorate

https://en.wikipedia...olubility_table

http://barium.atomis...m_chlorate.html


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#6 Scorpion812

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:00 AM

Barium Chlorate isn't particularly hard to handle.  It is however more sensitive that potassium chlorate, despite being a rather sluggish oxidizer.  It's harder to make due to a poorer current efficiency.  Potassium chlorate can be made in upwards of 90% or so current efficiency.  90% of the electrons go toward making chlorate, and are not lost in unproductive ways such as chlorine loss, oxygen production, etc.  With barium chlorate, this value is closer to ~50%.  I don't know how it's made industrially, but in small scale it's almost always synthesized from sodium chlorate or another chemical method as far as I'm aware.
 
I did see one reference stating that barium chlorate is less soluble in cold water than potassium chlorate, thus making the transformation you want to do impossible.  However, the numbers I saw as far as solubility data did not back this up.  
 
http://www.sciencema...Barium_chlorate
https://en.wikipedia...olubility_table
http://barium.atomis...m_chlorate.html


I didnt want to make barium chlorate, i wanted to buy it and sometimes make some kclo3 with it. I think that it should be possible with 20°C water shouldnt it?

#7 taiwanluthiers

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:43 AM

Hi everyone, 

so since potassium chlorate is very hard to get in europe, and if its sold, its expensive, i came up with the idea of making KClO3 from Barium chlorate, which is readily available. Has anyone ever gone through this process, and is it recommended? I thought of making solutions of Barium chlorate and KCl and mixing them to precipitate Potassium Chlorate.

 

What do you think?

 

All you need is a MMO anode (saltwater chlorination anode), and potassium chloride.

 

Pass electricity through them, wait a week

 

Collect crystals.

 

Easy peasy



#8 Scorpion812

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:58 AM

 

All you need is a MMO anode (saltwater chlorination anode), and potassium chloride.

 

Pass electricity through them, wait a week

 

Collect crystals.

 

Easy peasy

ive done that using graphite before, and i have ordered a lead dioxide and an mmo already



#9 GalFisk

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:25 PM

Why not mix a solution of BaClO3 with a solution of K2SO4 instead? Insoluble (and nontoxic, and pyrotechnically useful) BaSO4 will precipitate out, leaving KClO3 in the solution.

#10 Scorpion812

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:38 AM

Why not mix a solution of BaClO3 with a solution of K2SO4 instead? Insoluble (and nontoxic, and pyrotechnically useful) BaSO4 will precipitate out, leaving KClO3 in the solution.

that sounds like a good idea, but i think its much harder to come by K2SO4 than KCl, but NaSO4 is sold often and you could mix it with KCl to get K2SO4. Someone really needs to try this. I sadly don't have the chems to do that atm...



#11 EdM

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:46 AM

Potassium Sulfate should be readily available in an agricultural (or hydroponic) supply store. It is also easily made using Potassium Hydroxide (soapmaking supplies) and Sulfuric Acid (drain cleaner or battery electrolyte). Watch out for the heat of reaction, though.

 

Use stoichiometric proportions (fine tune by titration if desired), and the Barium Sulfate will precipitate out, and you will be left with a moderate solution of Potassium Chlorate. Evaporate and purify by recrystallization.






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