Question for Retort users

[Merlin]

I use a retort which is basically a 5 gal bucket with a lid and ring. I have only used it to make charcoal from pet bedding. I had to cut down a cedar so I cut it up, debarked it and split the pieces. The pet bedding cooks in about 45 min rotating and occasionally shaking the bucket. I am wondering how long or even if it will cook the solid split pieces without insulation of some kind? Anyone with experience please advise. I use propane so if it requires a long time to cook it might not be worth the expense. Thanks

[3LEGGEDSQUIRREL]

I would say 1 hour. You might check out this link. Its what I used as a reference. I have only done pine.

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal.html

[otto]

Green or seasoned? That will make a difference. Green will take longer to drive off the moisture and then the volatiles and then cook to coal. Your temp and heat distribution will also be a factor. Some "oldguy" here built a double barrel retort a while back. search that out, there's more info than I can A.) remember off the top of my old brain and B.) really good stuff for those looking to retort conversion. There's some good science behind what he put together including optimum conversion temperature and heat distribution.

 

Based on that, I feature an LP fueled oven with PID controller dedicated to charcoal conversion. If I vent the byproducts properly I could also let is serve double duty as a shop oven for curing powder paint and making the odd pizza...... . I'll need time (first), then room, but very realizable.

 

I have a pile of white cedar, red cedar and white ash waiting for that moment.

 

Edit: A.) Wow, after 4 years I finally made 100 posts and B.) check this out: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/6890-oldguys-triple-barrel-charcoal-retort-design/?&hl=%20making%20%20charcoal

Edited July 17, 2016 by otto

[dagabu]

I use a retort which is basically a 5 gal bucket with a lid and ring. I have only used it to make charcoal from pet bedding. I had to cut down a cedar so I cut it up, debarked it and split the pieces. The pet bedding cooks in about 45 min rotating and occasionally shaking the bucket. I am wondering how long or even if it will cook the solid split pieces without insulation of some kind? Anyone with experience please advise. I use propane so if it requires a long time to cook it might not be worth the expense. Thanks

Have you tried to make your retort into a TLUD? Much more efficient and can be faster.

[Merlin]

Thanks for the replies. I understand how the retort works. I do not understand how the tlud works without leaving ashes. When I cooked the last batch of pet bedding the bedding converted to charcoal but I also tossed in a piece of cedar and it only charred on the outside causing me to wonder if it would cook in the retort if filled with pieces of cedar. I need to read up a bit more on the methods. In the meantime tomorrow I probably give it a try and then I will know -only out a tank of propane if it doesn't. I can tell you I have only used ERC bedding and willow. I can't tell any real difference in performance. The bedding is cheaper and readily available while I have to order willow from custom charcoals and it still needs some additional cooking to make good BP. Thanks

[Arthur]

Much depends on the size of the timber that you feed into the retort. big lumps are bad small sticks are much better

[Nessalco]

Have you tried to make your retort into a TLUD? Much more efficient and can be faster.

 

I'm coming to think that the TLUD process cooks off important volatiles that can contribute to hot powder. I don't yet have empirical data to back that up (my big show is next month and I'm out straight getting ready for that) but have cooked the same wood by both processes, and the retort seems to produce a superior product. Baseball testing this fall....

 

Kevin

[dagabu]

For me, the 11+ seconds of flight time in the baseball lift test using Willow, shows that a there are plenty of volatiles left.

 

Using the TLUD method or a retort have benefits and detractors, both can drive off volatile compounds if overcooked and both can produce hot C if care is taken.

 

The big difference is in the amount of fuel consumed to convert the C. After spending time cutting a tree down and splitting into "splits", running it through the chipper shredder, packing the cooker (either kind), the last thing I want is to have to build a second fire and use up all sorts of my wood just to heat the retort?

 

Uh, no thanks.

 

Also, TLUD needs no fire tending after its done, several batches can be cooked at the same time and it goes much faster.

 

All I am saying is that to only try one method is to limit ones self.

[Merlin]

I plan to try the tlud when I learn more about it. You say you split the wood and then chip and shred before cooking?

Just want to compare- how much BP to get 11seconds of total flight time?

[memo]

merlin

i started out using a 1 gallon retort with a propane burner took about 45 miniutes to finish dry red cedar, it was getting spendy doing it that way. the next step was using fire to cook the charcoal that took about 1 hour using small splints of wood that were 1" x 2". this was taking a lot of time . i just made a 5 gallon TLUD out of scrap i had laying around . I use planer shavings to make the coal. the TLUD works a lot better imo. I have not tested flight time yet

[dagabu]

"On Page140 of The Best of AFN II, for lifting a 3” ball shell, 0.6 oz of FFg, or 0.75 oz of 2FA"

 

This is our standard.

[Merlin]

"On Page140 of The Best of AFN II, for lifting a 3” ball shell, 0.6 oz of FFg, or 0.75 oz of 2FA"

 

This is our standard.

I didnt really know there was a standard. I have just adjusted my charge to give me the correct altitude. For baseballs I get 11.8 sec total flight time for

25g of 2FA. Maybe a little shy of standard but still it works. I have been studying the TLUD. The one thing I am missing is how to totally close it off to air at the end of the cook. With a sealed retort you just plug the vent holes.

[memo]

take the chimney off , put the 5 gal can on a flat surface cover the top with another flat surface . i use cement board on the ground and 3/4 plywood for the top with a 6 liters of water for weight. the water bottle is plastic so if it melts i hope it will put the fire out.

 

memo

[OldMarine]

I plant the base in damp sand and use a tight fitting lid for the top. As long as you stop airflow air intrusion is a minimal problem. I get a tiny bit of ash on the top of every load but it is easily removed after it cools.

[dagabu]

I have been using old, wet bath towels to seal it all off and like memo, cement board for the top. Bottom sits on the ground like Old Marine.

[OldMarine]

I have a 1" inset on the bottom of my bucket so I'm not worried about the sand getting in my coal but if your container doesn't sit above the ground a bit I'd highly recommend placing it on a paving stone or some other non gritty surface. I've found it's not as critical as sealing the top well.

[dagabu]

No real sand here and I too am using a bucket with a healthy standoff.

 

https://youtu.be/6dDTE7wKW1c

[chuckufarley]

I just use a separate 5 gallon metal bucket. After the burn is complete, I quickly transfer the hot coals into the other(solid bottom) bucket and seal the lid on.

[dagabu]

I just use a separate 5 gallon metal bucket. After the burn is complete, I quickly transfer the hot coals into the other(solid bottom) bucket and seal the lid on.

 

Nice! You can do several batches in a day that way too.

[chuckufarley]

 

Nice! You can do several batches in a day that way too.

True.

 

I can fit about four or so cooked batches in the solid bucket before it gets too full

[Merlin]

True.

 

I can fit about four or so cooked batches in the solid bucket before it gets too full

[Merlin]

Thanks. That sounds good, surefire and simple!

[Merlin]

For those of you who use a retort I have found that my 5 gal bucket fits inside the shell of an old Brinkman smoker with the burner underneath. The smoker is vented on top of course but I suspect this will hold the heat much better than simply setting the can on the burner in the open especially if there's a breeze. I haven't tried it yet but I suspect it will take less propane. Just a thought. No doubt the tlud would be better.

[Merlin]

 

 

No real sand here and I too am using a bucket with a healthy standoff.

https://youtu.be/6dDTE7wKW1c

That looks just like my bucket. Yours looks simpler than some of the ones I have been looking at. You have holes in the bottom and secondary holes in the chimney. Is there a grate in the bottom to seperate ashes? And is that a door on the side?

[dagabu]

Nope, just holes on the bottom, about 150 of them all make with an awl and hammer. I dont have any ash to be concerned about and if there is any, I simply blow it off the charcoal when its cool.

 

This works very well with larger chips like what comes out of a wood chipper. With pet bedding, I pour the charcoal into a bucket from a few feet up and the ash (if any) blows away and the charcoal drops into the bucket.

 

No doors, the lit just sits on the drum, no latch.

 

Its really easy to get all elaborate with a TLUD but its not necessary.