WATER QUENCHING DIY Mg/Al

[oldguy]

 

 

Whoot whoot… …..If you DIY 50/50 Mg/Al……..water quenching it.

 

Is the way to GO.

 

Sure saves a lot of crushing hassle.

 

Edited July 9, 2011 by oldguy

[WonderBoy]

Mind sharing your method OG?

[FrankRizzo]

Absolutely! It's definitely the *only* way to process magnalium. Those little "popcorn" chunks are super easy to crush, and ball mill down in no time. It also saves so much wear on the drink shaker crucible (if you use that technique) to not plunge it into a cold water bath, but instead let it cool slowly after the metal has been poured out. I should really update the magnalium making PDF that Brian and I made, to reflect the process.

 

The only minor issue that I've had is that if some of the magnalium remains in the crucible, it'll almost certainly start burning. A dixie cup of charcoal powder dumped into the crucible will usually quench it quickly though.

Edited July 9, 2011 by FrankRizzo

[oldguy]

Mind sharing your method OG?

 

You can use FrankRizzo's charcoal starter, briquettes & stainless steel cocktail shaker with a lid (as a crucible) method to make 50/50 Mg/Al.

That is the way I started, thanks to Frank.

 

Now I use a DIY fire brick gas fire kiln & larger crucible, with a long handle.

 

Have a large (5 gallon or better) metal bucket ¾ full of cool water ready. Place a ½ sheet of plywood against it as a protective shield between you & the bucket.

Once Mg/Al mix is molten & well stirred, simply lift out the crucible, stand behind the shield , remove the crucible lid with tongs & slowly (emphasis on slowly) pour the Mg/Al into the bucket of water.

 

Wise to have on safety glass's or goggles, welders coat & heavy leather gloves or oven mitts on. You will get steam, snap, crackle & pop, plus possible flare ups.

 

I have heard others use a 3 or 4 inch piece of angle iron angled into the bucket of water & pour it down that as a trough. I didn't & it worked fine without it.

 

This method is not exactly for the timid type.

Edited July 9, 2011 by oldguy

[guntoteninfadel]

Ok, so where do you get the huge chunks of MgAl to begin with?

[oldguy]

Ok, so where do you get the huge chunks of MgAl to begin with?

 

You buy Mg & Al.

 

You will not see huge chunks or ingots of 50/50 Mg/Al alloy for sale.

 

At least anywhere I know.

 

Mg>

 

 

Al >

 

 

 

[dagabu]

You can use FrankRizzo's charcoal starter, briquettes & stainless steel cocktail shaker with a lid (as a crucible) method to make 50/50 Mg/Al.

That is the way I started, thanks to Frank.

 

Now I use a DIY fire brick gas fire kiln & larger crucible, with a long handle.

 

Have a large (5 gallon or better) metal bucket ¾ full of cool water ready. Place a ½ sheet of plywood against it as a protective shield between you & the bucket.

Once Mg/Al mix is molten & well stirred, simply lift out the crucible, stand behind the shield , remove the crucible lid with tongs & slowly (emphasis on slowly) pour the Mg/Al into the bucket of water.

 

Wise to have on safety glass's or goggles, welders coat & heavy leather gloves or oven mitts on. You will get steam, snap, crackle & pop, plus possible flare ups.

I have heard others use a 3 or 4 inch piece of angle iron angled into the bucket of water & pour it down that as a trough. I didn't & it worked fine without it.

 

This method is not exactly for the timid type.

 

That's me, the whuse. I second the use of leathers and full face shield, this stuff (any molten metal) does crazy stuff when poured into water.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

Only full face sheild I have is for welding. Which wouldn't work doing this.

But, after yesterdays experiance water quenching mg/al, I am going to buy a good one today.

I am also going to modify the crucible I use to extend the handle to 36 inches.

 

Again, this method is NOT for the timid, inexperianced or unprepared.

Without a large wide thick tall effective sheild & good set of protective wear.

I could readily see multiple severe 3rd degree burns and/or critical injury happen in a heart beat.

[oldguy]

Water quenched Mg/Al (50/50)

 

POPCORN MGAL

 

 

AVERAGE RUN MGAL

 

 

1/4 inch - MGAL (about 16% of the fractions were this size)

 

Edited July 9, 2011 by oldguy

[Bonny]

Interesting. For some silly reason I always though that water quenched MgAl would be like small droplets. I think I'll do it that way next time I make a batch (soon).

 

@Oldguy: Get a welding mask with flip up lenses, but not that autodark garbage, those are for sissies.

 

@Frankrizzo: Looking forward to the updated procedure, and get Brian back on the scene.

[dagabu]

Interesting. For some silly reason I always though that water quenched MgAl would be like small droplets. I think I'll do it that way next time I make a batch (soon).

 

@Oldguy: Get a welding mask with flip up lenses, but not that autodark garbage, those are for sissies.

 

@Frankrizzo: Looking forward to the updated procedure, and get Brian back on the scene.

 

Whusies thank you!

 

-dag

[NightHawkInLight]

I'd like to see what some of that granular mgal does as is in a salute or big comet. I bet it would burn pretty fiercely with a lot of crackling noise.

[dagabu]

I have some 4 mesh that will hardly light when holding a torch to it, maybe in 20 mesh or so but not a lot larger.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

30-60 mesh Mg/Al is where it starts getting happy.

Good mesh size for making crackle stars (dragon eggs) and for using in a hot prime mix.

[guntoteninfadel]

Whusies thank you!

 

-dag

 

 

Down south we spell it wussy, ya know like $#@@& only with a W

 

lol

[Algenco]

I use 10-30 mesh in Comets

[oldguy]

Remote controlled blender on a timer 1 minute on, 5 minutes off dry.

 

(so heat doesn’t build up)

 

 

Takes water quenched mgal down to minus 100 mesh in no time

 

 

 

[50AE]

I highly recommend the water quenching method. It saves a lot of time, the popcorns can be broken by hand. It tears the skin though, so wear gloves. Once put into a ball mill, they get into usable sizes for a 30 minutes to 1-2 hours.

 

I mostly need the coarser MgAl, so I open the drum and screen the material often.

[oldguy]

 

With a good blender, you don't hardly even need a ball mill.

I processed about 20 lbs down to fine powder today.

Example on my finger.

[dagabu]

Whats that old wrinkly thing? Oh, never mind, it's a finger

 

We spell it the same as you, wussy, I just was at a loss and misspelled it.

 

-dag

[WonderBoy]

Thanks for the info guys. FrankRizzo I took your MgAl class at Mason City, but I think I lost your print out . After using the water quenching method, could I then mill this down using ceramic media?

[FrankRizzo]

Thanks for the info guys. FrankRizzo I took your MgAl class at Mason City, but I think I lost your print out . After using the water quenching method, could I then mill this down using ceramic media?

 

I've always used my steel or stainless steel media. Magnesium is an interesting metal in that it has the ability to strip oxygen from things that we might otherwise consider inert. Most ceramic media has oxygen as part of the chemical makeup, so if the media wore during the milling process, you now have a finely powdered oxidizer mixed in. How reactive that ceramic oxidizer is, I don't know.

 

I imagine Oldguy is milling his with that Zirc M media. If he doesn't report any problems, I think it would be reasonably safe. Take care especially when dumping the jar, as you would now have a large amount of atmospheric oxygen in addition to the small amount of ceramic oxidizer available near the impact zones of each media clanking out onto your separation screen. Another member had an accident (graphic) milling magnesium (not MgAl) with Cab-O-Sil, which is SiO2 (*very* fine sand).

 

EDIT: Here's a copy of the handout: http://www.pyrobin.com/files/homemade magnalium.pdf

Edited July 13, 2011 by FrankRizzo

[oldguy]

 

In fact I used Zirc M media to BM some water quenched Mg/Al without any issues.

But, I used my old harbor freight mill & rubber lined jar.

Just in case it "went up", I didn't want my big mill & jars damaged.

 

Reality is, with a good SS commercial grade blender (remotely operated to be safe ).

You can dry blend water quenched Mg/Al down to -80 mesh very quickly.

It takes more time to screen it than it does to blend it down to fines.

 

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Nice idea really. I did that with lead to obtain small parts for melting from a large block, but didn´t think about it here. I saves the step of crushing it down to chunks ready for the coffee grinder. It could also save a lot of effort in case of the less brittle grades e.g. 70/30.

 

But: have you noticed any detrimental impact on the outcome? Don´t know what this could be based on, but rapid cooling can do something physically... (Notice the scientific background of this question.)

Edited July 13, 2011 by AdmiralDonSnider

[oldguy]

But: have you noticed any detrimental impact on the outcome? Don´t know what this could be based on, but rapid cooling can do something physically... (Notice the scientific background of this question.)

 

It may be slightly less reactive, at least it seems so putting an open flame to it.

But, (oddly) not less reactive in a few comps I tried with it.

I think water quenching may somehow add an oxide layer of some sort?

 

I open air dryed mine in sunlight, with a nice warm breeze.

if that matters as far as forming oxides.

 

But, you would think ball milling would remove oxides.

But again, even the ball milled stuff I did was exposed to a lot of fresh air for a day (if that matters).

But, no chemist or metallurgist here, so I cannot explain it.