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Exploding Targets


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#21 alkaline

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:59 PM

Do you have a report on how this worked?


My first post please be patient. This Idea has been popping up every now and then as regards inexpensive exploding targets.Ive worked with oxyacetylene torchs as have many of you and Im sure quite a few couldnt resist filling a balloon or other plastic bag with a roughly OB mix of acetylene/oxygen firing on it with a .22 tracer(otherwise exploding it,hot length wire etc).,EARache! I would think even a .22LR impacting a steel target immediately behind the balloon/bag would create enough heat to detonate the oxyacetylene.The lead projectile does melt after impacting a steel plate 1/8-3/16,MP of PB sufficient?Ignite oxyacetylene
.22LR tracers unfortunately are expensive but not nearly as expensive as tannerite targets and oxyacetylene detonates with an earsplitting crack rather than what I believe is a deflagration similar to flash powder from the costly tannerite and similar materials.its been 20yrs since it was playtime with a torch but having a fair grounding in HE's and detonations its clear what oxyacetylene produced!The cost of .22 tracers could easily be mitigated by a motivated home fabricator/firearms
afficianado.
Floating-wieghtless targets?Hydrogen/Oxygen!?


Thanks for listening

#22 rcromwell29

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 09:26 AM

I need help and cant post as a new topic so hopefully someone here watching this can help. I have the ingredients for exploding targets AL/AN and the recipe.Which I have followed. However, it wont detonate with my AR15 reloads. My friends AR10 (308) round sets it off fine. I just want to make it so my AR15 or maybe 22lr round will set it off. Will adding more Aluminum powder to the mix do this for me? Any and all help is greatly appreciated

#23 shagaKahn

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 11:37 AM

Can't speak with absolute authority on your issue rc as I don't own a HPR and have never played with tannerite nor its clones--but my guess is your reloads aren't hot enough. The fact that your friend's .308 did the trick suggests you need a larger bullet with more umph. Can't say for certain that a .223 round will work even with a hotter load of powder--though I am certain a .22LR round won't.

And hey Alkaline, your mention of acetylene really took me back. In my mischievous youth we used to fill dry-cleaning bags with acetylene and detonate them with a burning cigarette. Prob'ly the loudest explosion I've ever witnessed. How any of us lived to grow up is a minor miracle.

Used to be able to buy carbide for miner's lamps at any hardware store and we'd pour some in a small cap and place it inside the bag and add water then seal the bag and lay a burning cigarette a few inches away on the ground and then get away. As the bag filled its sides expanded and eventually it would contact the cigarette. None of us had binoculars to verify but I daresay the bag didn't inflate all that much--perhaps only a cubic foot or so of gas before it self-ignited. If you've ever heard a carbide cannon you know how remarkably loud this kind of detonation can be--considering those cannons only held only a few cubic inches of gas.

Ain't tried for years to purchase carbide but I've got a feeling it's not so readily available as it once was. But I do love your idea of acetylene as an affordable alternative to tannerite. Please keep us posted on your results.

Oh and as long as I'm answering multiple queries here, pyropulsion asked how it went when I reduced the weight of my Cu/Al thermite targets and packed the film can with cotton to make up the volume. They worked fine with only a slight reduction in the sound of the blast--and with considerable reduction of the expense.

#24 dagabu

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:07 PM

Ain't tried for years to purchase carbide but I've got a feeling it's not so readily available as it once was. But I do love your idea of acetylene as an affordable alternative to tannerite. Please keep us posted on your results.


They still sell it

CARBIDE

My ex goes spelunking and I buy and store it for her and fix her lamps when she gets into small spaces. I went with her once but I got a little freaked out when she got stuck in front of me and I had to back out 100'.

I still get vertigo thinking about that day :wacko:

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#25 moondogman

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:32 PM

carbide makes a good fuel for a cannon too.

Steve

#26 shagaKahn

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:38 PM

Ten pounds of carbide; holy fuk.

And your mention of the word spelunking made my stomach turn. What a ghastly sport.

Used to go caving in Northwest GA at a place called Byers Cave. Actually camped out one night in there with some other insane buddies; when you turn the lights out in a cave you know the meaning of darkness.

One spot called Hitchock's Easy Squeeze requires that you lay down and insert yourself into a crack in the wall and slide along sideways towards an opening that actually converges as you get close to the end. Only way you can fit is to turn your head sideways. Think of a sandwich in which you're the meat the the bread is two immense slaps of rock. Utterly fuking insane--and I actually did it several times.

Only kool thing about getting miserably cold wet and muddy is a chance to see these cups of blood in one room. Over the centuries the dripping water has hollowed out this row of small cups in the floor and there must be just enough natural cinnabar in the water there to deposit the proper color cause it looks like little pools of blood that have filled and spilled over onto the rock.

They still sell it



#27 hst45

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

I have the ingredients for exploding targets AL/AN and the recipe.Which I have followed.


And what's the "recipe?"

Lower velocity rounds require higher sensitivity targets so I'm surprised that a .308 at probably 2700FPS pops a target when a .223 at 3200 FPS or better doesn't. Sometimes a bit of "grit" will add the needed push to push the target to go high-order; try adding some MgAl turnings for example. Sulfur can increase the sensitivity of the compound as well.
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#28 Mumbles

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:57 PM

Tannerite uses titanium metal and zirconium hydride to increase sensitivity. It also has some Ammonium perchlorate in it, which increases sensitivity as well.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#29 xBangergoosEx

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

Is there a way to increase the sensitivity of AN/AL to make it go off with a .22 or .223?

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#30 NightHawkInLight

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:39 AM

Is there a way to increase the sensitivity of AN/AL to make it go off with a .22 or .223?


It should already go off with a .223. You're going to have a hard time ever getting a puny .22 to do the job. Sensitivity can be increased with about 2% ammonium perchlorate, but I don't know that it will be enough for a .22.

#31 pyrojig

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:12 AM

It should already go off with a .223. You're going to have a hard time ever getting a puny .22 to do the job. Sensitivity can be increased with about 2% ammonium perchlorate, but I don't know that it will be enough for a .22.


(Im not suggesting the mix above which is a standard mix , to what is being referred to below. )
I have read of ways to improve the sensitivity , so that a 22 will reliably get the mix to go.... BUT, as with all thing s of this nature the trade off is a VERY sensitive mix that I would think twice about even considering. A suggestion is to find somebody who has a larger rifle and use that. Safety I believe is more important than convenience ANY-DAY.

#32 Delerius

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:21 AM

I'd like to say thanks to all that have giving hints and tips. Yesterday I caught this purple haze on camera right before my mix of AN and AL went off. Can anyone tell me what my camera captured?

Posted Image

Posted Image

I am also in the process of looking for the safest method to sensitize AN/AL so that it will go off with a 22. I purchased one of the 22 reactive targets and from the looks of it, they ground up the AN and the AL is darker than 5413H German Blackhead that I use. Would I be better off sensitizing the mix with sulfer or titanium shaving? I also heard that Bullseye smokeless powder might be an add in option (Bullseye contains nitrocellulose, nitoglycerin, diphenylamine, ethyl centralite, rosin, and polyester).

#33 NightHawkInLight

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:42 AM

This isn't the first time we've had a discussion about this purple flash. I believe it to be what some cameras do when their light sensor is overloaded. Here's a video that I took two cameras ago, notice the purple line:



The line is perfectly vertical, which I believe indicates the grain of the cheap glass in that particular camera. Similar to how you see lines coming from the headlights of oncoming cars through a windshield.

#34 pyrojig

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:16 PM

@
Delerius





I think you captured the shockwave from the detonation , bending the light spectrum . It seams that it picked purple this time around. I take it you took a couple frames from a video .... That was a nice pic .


The 22 targets are not based on AN. They are most likely Kclo3 and Sb2S3, with some dark Al as a fuel. Hence the reason for the darker material. AN sensitized to be set off with a 22 is a dangerous animal. I have heard of a Co. that makes targets like these.( Boomer targets) BUT>>>>, IMO they are not safe. They are a mix on site and shoot IMMEDIATELY. These are venturing into the H.E. realm .

#35 Delerius

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:00 AM

@
Delerius





I think you captured the shockwave from the detonation , bending the light spectrum . It seams that it picked purple this time around. I take it you took a couple frames from a video .... That was a nice pic .


The 22 targets are not based on AN. They are most likely Kclo3 and Sb2S3, with some dark Al as a fuel. Hence the reason for the darker material. AN sensitized to be set off with a 22 is a dangerous animal. I have heard of a Co. that makes targets like these.( Boomer targets) BUT>>>>, IMO they are not safe. They are a mix on site and shoot IMMEDIATELY. These are venturing into the H.E. realm .


Thanks for the reply... The photo was taken from a video that I took of the scarecrow. I thought maybe the purple might be the shockwave since the next frame was of the explosion and the purple haze was only on that one frame. Whatever it might be I think it's pretty neat...

For what I'm finding is that the companies selling the 22 sensitive must be based on potassium chlorate or potassium perchlorate. With owning a gun shop I don't feel comfortable stocking these products because I'm afraid that someone will mishandle them. The 22 sensitive targets that I tried did catch a paper target on fire and I wish I would have saved some of the mix to try a shock test. I would like to do is make a target that isn't so flammable and sensitive but sensitive enough for a 22. Maybe some can help me understand what is actually happening when a center rifle bullet pass though a mix of AN / AL. Is it the velocity / shock of the bullet and or the heat the bullet generates that causes the molecule breakdown?

#36 Mumbles

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:38 PM

I've always been under the impression that it's the velocity/force of the bullet that triggers the reaction with AN/Al or whatever other target you were interested in.

I recall seeing a patent for some extremely sensitive targets not too long ago. They were sensitive to decently powered air rifles. I believe it was a mix of Potassium chlorate and thiourea. It was contained in such a way that it couldn't move (ie no friction), and wouldn't be directly available to impact without a projectile. Essentially there was a membrane separating the explosive component from the impact surface.

One thing I've always tossed around in my head was using the match approach. The ignitor is separated from the match head to make them somewhat safer to carry around. I wonder if the same approach would work for these too. Perhaps paint or contain a relatively insensitive oxidizer/fuel mix on one surface, and place the sensitizer in front of it when you were ready. I'm imagining something like H3 painted onto a plate or packed into a paper cup. Then having something like sulfur or sulfur/Sb2S3 painted or coated onto a sheet which would be put in front (or behind) of the H3 when it's ready to be used. Perhaps even add some Ti or metal in there to improve the effect and sensitivity. This may need a relatively hard surface backing to work properly.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#37 NightHawkInLight

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:48 PM

50/50 chlorate and sulfur +5% dextrin works great as a strike anywhere type of comp. When I've used it before I've mixed the chlorate and dextrin first with water and added the sulfur once everything's wet. It burns vigorously when dry, but not explosively unconfined. Paint that onto some paper and tape it to the outside of a paper bag full of 70/30 and I bet that would make a fine target.

Edit: Or, another idea off of that concept. Paint the underside of paper cups with the chlorate mix, then when ready to shoot fill the inside with 70/30 and seal the top off with a piece of tape. set them up on their sides and aim for the bottom.

Edited by NightHawkInLight, 23 November 2011 - 12:50 PM.


#38 pyrojig

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 05:27 PM

I believe that 70/30 has the potential to be ignited by a .22 cal passing through the mix. It is only a few steps less sensitive than its cousin chlorate. If a little PURE ACID FREE sulfur is added to the flash(perch 70/30) then you have a "safer" target per say. I do like the idea of the painted surface of a container with a very small amount of sensitive mix. It makes almost for a binary effect. Safer to mix and shoot at site. One could make paper disks with the sensitive mix painted to one side and drop that into the target just prior to sealing .

#39 feeln17

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:27 PM

http://www.sureshote...ingtargets.com/ I like these. They have small ones and up to 1/2LB that will go off with a 22lr any of the others need 223 or bigger. built a 8 foot snowman last year,carved out a hole at the 2' mark and stuck the 1/2 lb in there covered it up. backed off 80 yrds oe so at let the round go. great a show and no more snow man !

#40 Algenco

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 08:36 PM

Antimony trisulfide and potassium chlorate 50 50. add water until you get a slurry the consistency of thin gravy. Paint the mixture on a square of card stock Be careful with these while dry they are sensitive
Place one of the cards in front of your AN mix

It was suggested to me to use 2 layers of Gypsum board glued together, cut a 3" diam hole, glue a piece of cardboard on 1 side, fill the cavity with your mixture and carefully tape one of the "painted"cards over the mix
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