oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 HI, I have looked through the forum, and havent found much information about some of the smaller tefc motors, such as those used in pool pumps.Now, where i live, allot of people use both bore water, and pools, with bore water in them, and it spells trouble to say the least. im not completely certain but i think the whats going on is that its impossible to repair a few amount of these pumps, either because no parts exist and/or the pump head cannot be removed and thus replaced, ide even go so far as to say that the smaller pumps cant even be opened at all, without compromising what should be a permanent seal.Point is, unlike washing machines, these pumps are all over the place, i frequently pass by numerous pool, pump and general engineering places that always have a big pile of them out front, occasionally with half the pump head removed. Getting one free shouldnt be too hard, the issue is i dont know if it would be suitable for a small ball mill.im positive that these motors would do the job, however, im not neccesarily upgrading or anything, i dont plan to mill more than a 3lb load at a time, so my issue is, i dont know how efficient these sorts of motors are with low loads. Its not strictly for pyrotechnics either, i do plan to use it as a rock tumbler/polisher, for the various uses one would typically use one, so i may need to run it for a solid week but i dont want it costing me a fortune to run in those instances.these are roughly 1000w pumps, and while logic would dictate that a potentially stronger motor should still only use roughly the same about of power as a smaller one would for the same load, i cant find any datasheets anywhere for those kinds of pump motors so i have no idea what its going to use, or if its even capable of running with less than the intended load. Does anyone have any experience with these ones or could otherwise give me some insight?otherwise, given im not looking for much more power than a typical chicago rotary tumbler is normally capable of, where should i be looking for motors that will use roughly the same amount? Ive tried washing machines but they are hard to come by, and in the few instances i have come across one the motor is either busted or it requires a special controller to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hi mate,What about an old wiper motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 a wiper of what?windsheilds? seriously doubt those would be brushless, or up to the task of ball milling without seriously overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivars21 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 old washing machine motor is what I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Sorry for a response lacking detail.I used an old windscreen wiper motor 12volts. I couldn't kill the thing. Yes it gets a bit warm after a few days, I had the motor well separated from the mill/if there was any chance of spillage as a precaution. It is fully enclosed. Good speeds. Washing machines aren't ( I haven't come across) any fully enclosed ones. So it would have to be fully separated. But they are powerful buggers too.My wiper motor lasted me, well till I upgraded my mill. Still runs. About 5 years I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I thought it would never do the job. I just had one lying around and I thought I would 'give it heaps' and try and kill it. It lasted a full week. With no comp. just constant running. So I deemed it fit for milling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 hmm, well, there is one at the local tip shop i might test and if it works ill see what i can do with it.how noisy is it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Quiet as a mouse.It's the media you have to be concerned with sound Edited July 6, 2014 by jessoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 well its worth a shot, also, OMG i just realized that i have a 24v motor from a razor scooter, thats something which is designed to last a while and be used continuously, ontop of the fact it has removeable brushes! but it uses a chain, will that be an issue if i completely isolate the bp from the motor so none will ever get into it ever even if the barrel were to completely fall apart and make a huge mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 well its worth a shot, also, OMG i just realized that i have a 24v motor from a razor scooter, thats something which is designed to last a while and be used continuously, ontop of the fact it has removeable brushes! but it uses a chain, will that be an issue if i completely isolate the bp from the motor so none will ever get into it ever even if the barrel were to completely fall apart and make a huge mess? Trust me, any brushed motor is never the answer for pyro use, TEFC motors are plentiful, there is almost no way to truly isolate the motor from the drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessoman Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 +1 for dagabu that's very true.Yes, you hear of people using washing machine/exposed motors... Unless the mill is in a situation where it would not harm anyone or anything under any circumstances in the event that it DOES explode. Including remote start and stop. Very remote. Still it is not really okay. But hope you understand the associated risks of an exposed motor. Those things reliably spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 well then in that case, back to my original question, are water pump TEFC motors suitable? Will they draw up massive amounts of juice or will it just be propertionate to the load applied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonGuyDude Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I too have been trying to get a ball mill solution to replace my harbor freight mill.I keep going back and forth between getting one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/35lb-capacity-Rock-Tumbler-Mill-or-Brass-for-use-with-stainless-steel-Media-/351113373540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51bffce764 Or building my own. So far my biggest obstacle has been finding a motor that would work. Sadly, the part number from "Ball Milling Theory and Pratice" is discontinued at grainger.I came across this on ebay, how do you guys think it would work? Motor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-SMITH-1-2HP-AC-MOTOR-115-208-230VAC-60-50HZ-1725RPM-FRAME-56C-/261160116993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cce5b2301Capacitor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261162466847?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D261162466847%26_rdc%3D1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've been looking into motors as well recently. My one concern about the motor you have listed is that is has an open enclosure. I'd personally be much more comfortable using a totally enclosed fan cooled (TEFC) motor. If you watch ebay and surplus sites for deals, you can find them for about $40-60 sometimes. If you're looking to get something sooner than later, you can get them from the ebay resellers for around $100. Below is a TEFC which is very similar to the one you posted. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-MOTOR-1-2HP-1725RPM-1PH-115V-208-230V-56C-TEFC-WITH-BASE-/300671139412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4601657e54 If you want to build a giant mill using a 1+ HP motor and have the capability to handle 3 phase, you can get a motor very inexpensively though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Surplus Center has a TEFC for $11.00 US that was pulled from a pump, they are continuous duty, 5/8" shaft and are really tight. I purchased a case (4) to power our magnetic drive pump for the pond fountain. I have around 10,000 hours on the first one and it is still good to go. It sits in a dry well (not submersed) and has a magnetic coupler through the well wall. A 5/8" coupler shaft would make this a nice modular motor. We have washed it down several times with no sign of fatigue although it is not rated for such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamdragon6 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Just looking at safety would it be best to just get away from electricity altogether then? If price is not an issue of course. Would something like these work http://www.mcmaster.com/#air-powered-motors/=srpxhu ? I've worked with pneumatics and air motors before but would like your thoughts on their pros and cons for pyro purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 If you go with hydraulic motors, the power pack needed would probably work for a future rocket press. Just a thought. Do air motors have enough start up torque for a ball mill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 If you go with hydraulic motors, the power pack needed would probably work for a future rocket press. Just a thought. Do air motors have enough start up torque for a ball mill? Sadly, no. Air mortors are fractional and do not have a starting torque high enough to turn a loaded ball mill. By-pass air motors are stronger but will stall under load, that is part of their design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonGuyDude Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I've been looking into motors as well recently. My one concern about the motor you have listed is that is has an open enclosure. I'd personally be much more comfortable using a totally enclosed fan cooled (TEFC) motor. Ah thank you for the help. I made that post pretty late at night and actually didn't notice it was an open enclosure. The one you linked is absolutely ideal, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sadly, no. Air mortors are fractional and do not have a starting torque high enough to turn a loaded ball mill. By-pass air motors are stronger but will stall under load, that is part of their design. Thanks, Dagabu. I thought that may be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncrichie Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I see that some don't recommend open frame motors like washer/dryer motors. Can someone explain what the dangers are from these induction designed motors? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Sparks. Any motor that allows for air passages into the windings is unsafe for intimate contact with energetic materials. Ball mill jars leak, leaks make for fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncrichie Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Are all TEFC motors considered to be explosion proof? This would seem to be the case if open cased motors are a no-no. I'm still trying to grasp where the sparks would be generated in an induction type motor? Just asking, not trying to be difficult. Thanks, Kurt Edit, ok I found it. I just did some reading (a wonderful thing by the way). Centrifical switches found in a lot of induction motors are potential locations for sparks!!! I suppose type TEFC motors help reduce that danger. Edited July 12, 2014 by uncrichie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanbeefjerky Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 with any motor if BP can get anywhere and cause friction theres always that risk regardless of wether sparks would happen to ignite it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry505 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 An old swamp cooler moter is what I useI'm running about 90 rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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