airfloat and BP

[Merlin]

I am new but the one thing I do understand is that one must be able to make good BP. Simple, 75,15,10 ball milled then granulated, dried, dried, dried.. I have tried several times and the results were pitiful. Oh, it was BP of a sort but not useful for lift or burst. You know, all the pyro suppliers sell either "kits" or components for making BP. I discover that they all sell air-float hardwood charcoal even with BP kits-even Skylighter. Now I have learned if you want decent BP you must use willow, paulownia, or hemp charcoal.

WHY is it none of the suppliers offer willow or softwood charcoal??? I have wasted a lot of time and have on hand a lot of airfloat charcoal( for.....?) and have yet to locate any of the types that actually will make good black-powder. Why is this not emphasized up front more than it is? Now I also know you cannot make large shells 4'' and up without good reliable charcoal. Are all the pyros making their own charcoal or is there a secret source from which they are purchased? If you read skylighter you will come away believing you can make good lift and even burst from their bp kits.

Feel free to comment because it appears I don't understand. It seems if one must make bp from hardwood airfloat then one must also make benzolift to compensate.

Am I far off?

[Blackthumb]

You are right on...had the same problems until I made my own from cotton wood and cedar. World of difference.

[taiwanluthiers]

Maybe it was all a conspiracy from the big firework names (Zambelli and all) so the average people don't discover the secret to making good fireworks? Or it's because hardwood charcoal is cheap and probably bought as surplus from the same people making charcoal briquettes.

[Arthur]

Hardwood charcoal can sometimes be used for fountains and sparklers (tubed), so what you have may not be wasted. There is a listing on the web of charcoals that have been tried for DIY BP some are better than others. pick a good one from those that grow locally to you. try http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html there may be others.

[Bobosan]

One source for small quantity (1lb) of willow

 

http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=284

 

customcharcoal.com has 8lbs of willow.

 

http://www.customcharcoal.com/willow-lump-charcoal.html

 

Having a good ball mill and finding the optimum milling time for your mill and media is also key. You can make very good usable black powder even with generic hardwood air float.

 

I make my own charcoal from red cedar and pine pet bedding using the TLUD cook method and I'm lucky enough to have a Paulownia tree that provides wood for traditional retort charcoal production. Usually I find Paulownia included in the cords of heating wood purchased for the winter months.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Bobosan

[pyrokid]

I can vouch for the quality of the willow from ihaveadotcom. It makes great lift powder.

 

Making charcoal is a cool process if you have the means to do it.

[nater]

I don't have a problem making functional BP from commercial airfloat charcoal. It is not the fastest possible, but it works.

 

Yes, hotter charcoal is better. There is no secret or conspiracy. Many pyros cook it themselves. Eastern Red Cedar obtained from pet bedding shavings works nicely. Black Willow, Alder, Paulownia, and Balsa woods are also known to make great BP.

[Merlin]

I didnt mean to assert that there was a conspiracy of some sort. I just could not understand why someone has not supplied the suppliers with the superior product. Firebreather says he can make functional bp from airfloat. I must be doing something wrong. when the stuff comes out of the mill it looks like talcum powder- very fine- dont know where I a missing it. I have of course ordered 16 lbs from custom and another 2 lbs from ihaveadotcom. I admit ignorance as to the availability of woods here in North Alabama, but I know willow grows but I really dont have access to any personally, so I rather purchase it as charcoal.

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

[Jakenbake]

Maybe you're not running your mill long enough. When the BP is nearing the end of its run it should start to clump up in a ball or to the sides of the mill jar. Granted the airfloat wont be great but if you get willow charcoal and don't mill long enough it won't be much better.

[Mumbles]

There's no consiracy, and there's no need to make up fanciful tales. Commercial airfloat is just that, a commercial product. Essentially all of the airfloat charcoal in the US comes from one source and is all the exact same product being resold from different places. It's popular because it's cheap, works well in most applications*, and is already a fine powder.

 

* - burst and lift are two applications it is less than stellar at.

 

With rockets or bigger shells you can easily get away with using commercial airfloat instead of some of the more reactive charcoals. When you're dealing with small shells, you basically need all the oomph you can get, or you need to use proportionally more lift or burst made from commercial airfloat. This is where specialty charcoals really shine. Why this is not more commonly advertised, I don't really know. It's a very common issue people getting into this hobby struggle with since they're usually not starting with multi-pound shells.

 

If you decide to try to cook your own charocal you'll probably have to go scavenging or exploring a little to see what is available to you. When investigating woods to try, the best tend to be from quick growing, light weight trees. The link provided above, is probably the most comprehensive source for charcoals on the internet, and it maintained by Danny Creagan, the PGI president. Red cedar pet bedding is pretty universally available in the US, and make quite good charcoal as well.

[eb11]

I use the airfloat from skylighter and have no issues with my bp mumbles has seen my lift the break needs a little help from something else but I make 2 inch shells. I run my ballmill for 5 hours and every time it is either stuck to the sides of the jar or in a clump. I just want my bp to perform I don't need it to be the fastest stuff

[Merlin]

Please let my say I used skylighter as an example. All suppliers sell air float no different than skylighter. I am doing two things based on these recommendations.

1. Getting a much better ball mill. I was using a 3lb rock tumbler.

2. Getting willow charcoal and will proceed from there.

If some of you are getting decent BP from AF then it must be my milling technique.

Thanks to all.

[dagabu]

"WHY is it none of the suppliers offer willow or softwood charcoal??? I have wasted a lot of time and have on hand a lot of airfloat charcoal( for.....?) and have yet to locate any of the types that actually will make good black-powder. Why is this not emphasized up front more than it is? Now I also know you cannot make large shells 4'' and up without good reliable charcoal. Are all the pyros making their own charcoal or is there a secret source from which they are purchased? If you read skylighter you will come away believing you can make good lift and even burst from their bp kits."

-Merlin

 

The reason is the coals and sparks that hard woods make, or don't make that are the concern. Take a look at the table below, do you see Elm, Cherry and Beech, Maple, Oak and Locust make Excellent charcoal while all the reactive ones we like; Willow, Pine, Spruce, Red Cedar etc make poor charcoal. You will also notice that the same charcoals we like have the most sparks.

 

Since the pyro community is so small, the commercial producers of charcoal avoid all of these woods in favor of cooking woods. You can get Royal Oak airfloat for less than $.50 a pound because they make millions of pounds of hard wood charcoal each year.

 

One Royal Oak Avenue

Roswell, GA 30076

United States

Phone:

678-461-3200

Fax:

678-461-3233

www.royal-oak.com

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2014 by dagabu

[braddsn]

Merlin, I myself was asking the same questions! Luckily, I have not ordered any chems yet.. and the fine folks here have told me how I can make my own charcoal! I have decided to use Eastern Red Cedar. The only tools you need to make great airfloat charcoal for pyro is a paint can, the right species of wood, and a ball mill! And while on the subject of ball mills, you mentioned getting a different one. Might I suggest the Thumler's Tumbler, model "B" (high speed). The guys here said it worked great for pyro. Mine already arrived, and I have to say it looks like a nicely built machine. I also found a good online source for .50 cal lead balls... only 13 bucks for 130 of them. You will need about 1,300 of them for the Thumlers. I have yet to make any charcoal, but from what I have read, it's easy to do, and you end up with the best quality charcoal that you can get. I would suggest Eastern Red Cedar, Willow (grows around ponds), or Cottonwood. Those species should be easy to find, just about everywhere in North America. Good luck!

Edited August 27, 2014 by braddsn

[pex]

Have some one try hemp charcaol for his bp?

I can make it verry easy. They Sell it over here for rabbits like stro. I just have to make coal from it. I Read allot of diverend performance.

[Nessalco]

Thanks for the chart, Dag. Going to have to give larch a try....

 

Kevin

[dagabu]

Have some one try hemp charcaol for his bp?

I can make it verry easy. They Sell it over here for rabbits like stro. I just have to make coal from it. I Read allot of diverend performance.

 

It has been tried before, I can't remember the results but I think it is worthwhile to try.

 

 

Thanks for the chart, Dag. Going to have to give larch a try....

 

Kevin

 

I am dating myself a bit here but there was a line from Monty Python that I recall every time someone says 'larch'.

[pex]

Oke thanks i will give it a try. i was planning to pre mill my bp. First kno3 sulpher. And after ball mill the charcaol for a few ours screen it together.