Magnalium

[LiamPyro]

Lately, I have been considering ordering a pound of -325 mesh magnalium powder but I have a couple of questions.

First off, does it oxidize? I know that magnesium oxidizes after a little while and looses some of it's reactivity speed.

Also, aluminum oxidizes instantly when exposed to air. If magnalium does oxidize, would it be possible to mill it with some

airfloat charcoal to coat the metal particles, and therefore prevent oxidation? Basically the same idea behind dark aluminum I think. Also, I believe the charcoal would help with ignition which would be good.

Secondly, I was wondering if -325 mesh magnalium would be able to be reduced to only a few microns in a hobby-sized ball mill. I know it is a very brittle metal so I imagine it would work well. If you're curious, I'll be using the magnalium for flash powder

and as an additive to fountain mixes and such, since it is supposedly much brighter than pure aluminum. Thanks!

 

 

[pyrokid]

Commercial dark aluminum isn't made by milling aluminum with charcoal.

 

I don't think the oxidation of 325 mesh MgAl is something you have to worry about in a practical sense. Any metals you get from pyrotechnic suppliers will have been packaged with atmospheric oxygen, so surface oxidation due to that will already have occurred.

 

When milling metals you have to start to be afraid of the pyrophoric nature of finely divided aluminum and magnesium, especially upon opening the mill. Really, all the trouble associated with this isn't worth it when you can just buy a pound of hot dark aluminum and make big explosions.

 

Don't waste magnalium in fountains. Use it in colored stars.

 

My suggestion is to do less research on youtube and perhaps branch out into the more subtle, artistic areas of fireworks.

[pyroman2498]

Commercial dark aluminum isn't made by milling aluminum with charcoal.

 

I don't think the oxidation of 325 mesh MgAl is something you have to worry about in a practical sense. Any metals you get from pyrotechnic suppliers will have been packaged with atmospheric oxygen, so surface oxidation due to that will already have occurred.

 

When milling metals you have to start to be afraid of the pyrophoric nature of finely divided aluminum and magnesium, especially upon opening the mill. Really, all the trouble associated with this isn't worth it when you can just buy a pound of hot dark aluminum and make big explosions.

 

Don't waste magnalium in fountains. Use it in colored stars.

 

My suggestion is to do less research on youtube and perhaps branch out into the more subtle, artistic areas of fireworks.

I would like to make a few comments

fire off I agree , be very afraid of pyrophoric metals , buying is the easiest way and the safest

2. Ive heard of MgAl being used in fountains for color

3. DONT use youtube as a source of knowledge, if you do be careful of who you get it from, there are lots of KEWLS out there , i recemend , Forums such as this one , Fireworking.com ( Ran by the wonderful Ned,G) and sometimes passfire.com

[pyroman2498]

Secondly, I was wondering if -325 mesh magnalium would be able to be reduced to only a few microns in a hobby-sized ball mill. I know it is a very brittle metal so I imagine it would work well. If you're curious, I'll be using the magnalium for flash powder

and as an additive to fountain mixes and such, since it is supposedly much brighter than pure aluminum. Thanks!

 

 

If your wanting to make Flash powder with MgAl , than you dont need to be making flash powder.Second your wanting to mill the MgAl to a powder wich is ridiculously dumb , Lots of accidents have happened when people mill MgAl.

I suggest you start with some Color shells before you move to flash powder .

 

Thats just my 2 cents

 

Stay Safe and Stay Green

 

~Steven

[LiamPyro]

Really, all the trouble associated with this isn't worth it when you can just buy a pound of hot dark aluminum and make big explosions.

 

 

I already have a pound of 2 micron Indian Blackhead aluminum, and am not entirely satisfied with it. That is why I'm looking into MgAl.

[LiamPyro]

 

I suggest you start with some Color shells before you move to flash powder .

 

I just completed a 1.5" ball shell with homemade Chrysanthemum 6 stars, a rising comet made with the same composition, and homemade black powder lift

and rice hull burst. Oh yeah, and I also made the quickmatch myself. Blackmatch and the paper pipes. :-)

Some pics-

 

 

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0609.JPG

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0613.JPG

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0614.JPG

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0616.JPG

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0619.JPG

file://localhost/Users/liamscomputer/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/Jun%205,%202014/IMG_0623.JPG

Dang sorry looks like the picture link didn't work...

[LiamPyro]

I did'nt know that magnalium could be pyrophoric. I believe that aluminum is because it experiences rapid oxidation when the mill jar is opened,

but I'm pretty sure magnalium oxidizes slowly so I don't think any heat would be generated. Anyways, if I milled it with charcoal there probably wouldn't be any oxidation in the first place, so I don't think it could become pyrophoric. I could be wrong though, you guys know more than me! :-)

[LiamPyro]

Oops. Just did some research and I see what you meant by finely divided metals being pyrophoric.

[nater]

Anything finely divided can become pyrophoric. Fine metals can combust due to the heat generated from rapid oxidation. Other materials like fine flour just need a small spark.

 

If you are not happy with your IBA, the culprit is most likely your oxidizer. A 1.5" shell to any flash powder is a big jump.

Edited June 6, 2014 by nater

[Jakenbake]

magnesium is way more reactive then aluminum. Try smelting some and you will see Did you buy your Al from ebay?

[LiamPyro]

I bought my aluminum from rolling thunder pyro corp.

[LiamPyro]

How would you prevent the magnalium from becoming pyrophoric? Would charcoal do the trick? By the way, the oxidizer I am using is KCIO4.

Also, when I said I was't completely satisfied what I meant is that I figured there was room for improvement.

[Mike]

First of, why aren't you satisfied with your flash? Are you sure magnalium flash would change that?

 

Don't worry about the oxidation i got 20 micron magnalium, which i've since three years and buyed from a guy who allready stored it for a long time, i don't know how long but if i see the can i would assume that it is at least 5-6 years old. Still works like a charm.

 

If you mill it, you need to ad charcoal wax or something like that, to prevent the rapid oxidation and control the amount of oxigen introduced into the mill. This ist most times done, by opening the mill just for a couple seconds and not fully. But even with that process acidents have happened. It's not worth the risk better get ready made magnalium from a supplier. Or mill it by hitting with a non spark hammer and sifting it later with 400 and 500 mesh screen.

 

You don't need 2 microns magnalium for flash, my old 20 micron magnalium is strong enough to make a heavy magnalium flash, maybe sou should try that with you 325 mesh magnalium first before trying anything hazardous like that ball milling process you planned on.

 

But are you sure you can really handle flash allready or do you just want that big boom?

[LiamPyro]

Why does the magnalium powder oxidize so rapidly? I thought you said that it doesn't really have any oxidation problems.

[LiamPyro]

Hmmm... I have looked online, and I can't find magnalium any finer than 325 mesh. What exactly is charcoal wax?

Also, would it be a good idea to add sulfur to perchlorate based flash powders in order to increase power, because I've heard controversial things about doing that. So if I were to mill magnalium, would I add charcoal wax and open the mill jar periodically,

or just do one of those things.

[dagabu]

Hmmm... I have looked online, and I can't find magnalium any finer than 325 mesh. What exactly is charcoal wax?

Also, would it be a good idea to add sulfur to perchlorate based flash powders in order to increase power, because I've heard controversial things about doing that. So if I were to mill magnalium, would I add charcoal wax and open the mill jar periodically,

or just do one of those things.

 

It does not increase "power", it just makes it more sensitive allowing a more copmplete burn upon ignition.

[Mike]

Charcoal/wax the slash missed out (charcoal or wax).

 

Don't worry about the oxidation in long term storage.

 

But it will oxidise fast if it has ew surfaces like they get created during milling. There you need to add add an inhibitor and controll the oxigen level

[FlaMtnBkr]

I think you are complicating things more than they need to be. Just order what you want and see if it even works the way you want it to. If you find a need for it, then figure out how to make it. If a gram or two of your IBA flash in a tube doesn't scare the crap out of you by how powerful it is, something isn't right. If you rub your perchlorate between your fingers and can't feel any grains, then most likely your aluminum isn't up to par. Though I think that company delivers good chemicals although some people question the owner. But mix ups do happen.

 

I wouldn't worry about your material oxidizing away in front of you. There are drums of magnesium from the 40s that are still good material. That said, metals are still pyrophoric when the layer of oxidation are milled away. Plus the metal likes to hold on to the heat until it gets hot enough that it ignites. It doesn't have to make perfect sense, but it does happen and some very experienced people have been injured by it because they thought they were being safe and weren't prepared for how sensitive it can be.

 

Flash is easy to make and everyone likes a good boom. But it is also the most dangerous thing we work with. If you are going to mess with it, it is best to only mess with a couple grams at a time. That is still enough to remove chunks of flesh but probably won't take fingers off. And its enough for a good report on a rocket hundreds of feet in the air. If your aluminum doesn't sound like a shotgun going off when mixed in to 2 grams of flash, I suggest getting something else. And don't assume it will behave the same way when you get the new stuff.

[nater]

I questioned the oxidizer because there is perc on the market with so much anticake it won't make a report. Seems like someone in China dumps the anticake in the drum but does not stir it up.

[krakra]

Pure aluminium forms dense 4 nm oxide film on its surface when exposed to air, that prevents it's corrosion. No so much luck for magnesium or magnalium. So, for long-term storage in dry environment I'd prefer pure aluminium. Magnalium and especially pure magnesium do not have to be in too fine powder for a flash powder, since Mg is evaporated quite easily. I also have absolutely no desire to work with ultra-fine Mg powders. Even ~100 micrometer Mg fraction stinked ammonia when I water-binded its mixt with nitrate and dextrin and works as very powerful flash powder in mixes with nitrates, I fail to imagine what ultrafine Mg would be capable of. Magnalium is somewhere in between Mg and Al, but still absolutely no desire to work with ultra-fine powders of it.

 

Regarding pyrophoric metals: I made pyrophoric copper once by decomposition of copper citrate. was really funny.

[LiamPyro]

OK, so pyrophoricity can be prevented by adding charcoal. I wonder what the reactivity difference would be between MgAl powder with

an oxide layer and MgAl with a fine coating of charcoal? Anyways, my flash powder is certainly loud, but it requires a fair amount of space since it needs

an air-gap for proper combustion and there must be a fair amount for a good bang. For example, a little while ago I made a few small rockets with reports. Because they were small, they could only hold about three-tenths of a gram of my flash powder, resulting in a not to impressive bang at the end of their flight. Basically I'm trying to say that a faster and more violent flash powder would yield better results for the same amount of powder.

Also, other metals might be more bright or cause the flash powder to have other interesting qualities. Having faster flash powder would also theoretically save money because less powder would need to be used to make the same sized or better bang.

[pyroman2498]

Idk who told you flash needs room ( I actually think I do ) but they are off their rocker to think it needs room . I know people who pack bottom shots ro Pl full with flash (they don't actually pack it ) and you will have a heavy heavy report , how do you think 5 " salutes fit 1 lb of flash in them , they don't fill it half full xD

[LiamPyro]

Interesting! I've always heard that flash powder performs optimally with a 25%-40% air-space, because it needs enough room to expand a little and fully ignite. Apparently, leaving no space will result in un-ignited powder getting blown out of the casing and then ignited. This means that only part of the total flash powder amount will contribute to the bang. Also, leaving it loose probably increases flame propagation.

[pyrokid]

0.3 grams of flash will never be impressive.

[LiamPyro]

True, but it could be closer to impressive.