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green tailed star


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#1 superspike23

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

Here is a formula that I made when I was starting pyrotechnics.

 

Kclo3               38

barium nitrate   38

charcoal          13

red gum           6

dextrin             5

 

I remember only used acetone to wet the composition
I began ...

But the stars were drying  easily and were ignited quickly without prime


 

 

Attached File  green tailed star.png   710.58KB   5 downloads



#2 LambentPyro

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:13 AM

A better solvent would probably be water because of the Dextrin or Denatured because of the RG. If you are using Acetone, might as well remove the Dextrin, practically useless IMO.
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#3 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:42 PM

Dextrin is a fuel as well as a binder. Removing it might alter the burning characteristics. You could take it out if using a solvent other than water, but you know it will burn as designed if you leave it.

#4 LambentPyro

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:58 PM

This is the way I see it:
Red Gum : Binder :: Dextrin : Fuel

Although both not their primary strengths (Red Gum as a binder, and Dextrin as a fuel), you're correct in as it is still one.
http://www.YouTube.c...entPyrotechnics
This is my channel dedicated to the wonderful world of Pyrotechnics, displaying each firework as just as fascinating as the other.

"Men's arguing respectfully and adamantly has probably resulted in more actual learning than all forms of formal education combined" (Lloyd Sponenburgh).

"It looks like it's held together with duct tape, chewing gum, and good hopes" (Mumbles).

#5 MrB

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 04:29 AM

Looks like Weingart green, that someone touched up to make use of redgum instead of shellac.

 

Anything wet with only acetone is bound to be fast drying, and being "driven in" should be impossible. Sounds like a nice star. You cut em i presume?

B!



#6 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:55 AM

I tried to pump but star plate was dirty too quickly.
So I cut



#7 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:55 AM

This is the way I see it:
Red Gum : Binder :: Dextrin : Fuel

Although both not their primary strengths (Red Gum as a binder, and Dextrin as a fuel), you're correct in as it is still one.


Strength or not, it is a fuel and a pretty good one. Which I don't know how that makes it worthless?

#8 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:51 AM

I tried another batch of stars with this formula but by wetting with water + alcohol.
The result was bad.
Difficult to ignite and not nice tail



#9 schroedinger

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:02 PM

Is it possible that you get the tail cause the stars are poorly bound and pieces just ripping off?

#10 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:09 PM

No, the stars were very hard and unbreakable hand.
I mixed the chemicals quickly.
I just used 2 sheets of newspaper and kitchen roll.



#11 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

Looks like Weingart green, that someone touched up to make use of redgum instead of shellac.

 

Anything wet with only acetone is bound to be fast drying, and being "driven in" should be impossible. Sounds like a nice star. You cut em i presume?

B!

I used red gum because I had no shellac.



#12 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:22 PM

Here is the video of these stars.
The shell was bad, but it gives an idea of the stars.

 


Edited by superspike23, 27 April 2014 - 12:26 PM.


#13 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:58 PM

It looked like a nice green to me. Did you use a different charcoal? Maybe airfloat this time and something more coarse last time?

Charcoal is the only thing that would really give a tail so I would imagine something changed with it. But the color was good and probably even better in person. I have found a good green is actually one of the more difficult colors to get right.

#14 superspike23

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 03:04 PM

I used charcoal for bbq sold in bags.
I used a hammer to turn it into powder.

 

the only difference was the wetting.
acetone or alcohol + water


Edited by superspike23, 27 April 2014 - 03:07 PM.


#15 LambentPyro

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

Strength or not, it is a fuel and a pretty good one. Which I don't know how that makes it worthless?


Worthless to me as I've never seen or used it as a primary fuel. Show me a formula with just Dextrin as the fuel or where Dextrin is significantly higher than any other fuel like Red Gum. I'd honestly love to see.
http://www.YouTube.c...entPyrotechnics
This is my channel dedicated to the wonderful world of Pyrotechnics, displaying each firework as just as fascinating as the other.

"Men's arguing respectfully and adamantly has probably resulted in more actual learning than all forms of formal education combined" (Lloyd Sponenburgh).

"It looks like it's held together with duct tape, chewing gum, and good hopes" (Mumbles).

#16 superspike23

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

I just received my pump crossette.
I'll do a lot of this composition and try my tool at the same time.
I show the video.



#17 Mumbles

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

I only really know of one formula that primarily uses dextrin as a fuel.  It's still unsourced, and honestly doesn't look like that great of a formula to begin with.  It's at least out there, originally coming from Wouter Visser's webpage.

 

Potassium Chlorate: 60%
Sodium Bicarbonate: 20%
Dextrin: 20%

 

I don't really consider dextrin to be that good of a fuel.  Sure it has some fuel value, but generally as long as it's used in relatively small amounts it can be added or removed without much change in the performance of the star.  It definitely has less fuel value than red gum or other commonly used normal fuels.  If you want to get a better idea of this look up some information from Mike Swisher or 50AE.  They have quoted some real life values in the past for various fuels.  Usually it will be in terms of grams of KClO3 to burn 1g of fuel, or the other way around. 

 

Those sparks are definitely from coarse charcoal, and not anything inherent to the formula itself.  Grinding it finer very well could change the performance and color.  Are you sure the water bound stars are dry and not driven in?  That's the only thing I can think of that would make them harder to light, and that much slower burning.  Charcoal likes to hold onto water, which might be your issue. 


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#18 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:56 AM

Dextrin has a higher fuel value than lactose and while it may not be as much as red gum, it is something. I think if you look up the posts by Mike Swisher, as mentioned, he will be in agreement with this.

I have seen a blue formula where the only fuel is dextrin and others where dextrin is a high percentage of the fuel.

I have also made stars with the same chemicals and where the only difference was the binder used and when not dextrin, it was omitted. To my eyes, they weren't as good as when the dextrin was included regardless of binder.

I wasn't trying to argue and you may feel it isn't a good fuel or that is "worthless" which is fine, but also an opinion. Fact is, dextrin IS a fuel, and many times is a 'significant' percentage of the formula's fuel value. If you include it, you know the formula is complete as designed. If you omit it, you don't know how the burn characteristics might change. That was all I was trying to say. IMO, YMMV, ROTFLMMFAO, ETC.

#19 Mumbles

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:31 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who recalls seeing that blue formula.  I just couldn't find it.  I thought it was from Petri Phiko, I was unable to find anything close with an initial search. 


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#20 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:12 PM

It is on passfire, in the old forum posts. My subscription needs to be renewed so I can't look. I thought I had it in my notes, but haven't found it yet.




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