King's glitter, As i call it

[Mumbles]

It is. Unfortunately, magnalium is also incompatible with boric acid.

[LambentPyro]

Nater, yea the Dextrin Liquor I heard is a very efficient way of activating the Dextrin. I gotta try it sometime.

 

But for those that wouldn't use it, I would just replace the Denatured with very diluted Isopropanol (less than 20%) to get the most out of Dextrin without using the Liquor method.

 

Edit: How do you protect MgAl without using Dichromate?

Edited May 30, 2014 by LambentPyro

[Mumbles]

How does using Isopropanol over ethanol, or any alcohol at all, get the most out of the dextrin?

[LambentPyro]

I said in my previous posts that it's good to add to break the surface tension. By all means though, if one wants to use plain distilled water, they'd get even better binding results.

 

Edit: yea I see what you're saying (post 27), I did word that different than my intentions. My apologies...

Edited May 30, 2014 by LambentPyro

[nater]

I use plain water if the dextrin is in the comp and only use alcohol when binding with red gum or phenolic resin. I have found that charcoal heavy comps are more difficult to wet with water, but screening the damp comp fixes that. I also spritz the water in with a spray bottle. I was dumping premeasured amounts in, but found that wetting comp is a lot like making pie dough. The weather affects the mixture and it is very easy to turn a star comp into soup. Mixing the water in little by little and going be feel rather than a set amount works better for me.

 

Edit to add:

 

With all the said, I have been sold on using a dextrin solution (Eugene Y. "Dextrin Liquor") for my binding and granulation needs on BP comps. I cannot vouch for an improvement in speed, but I do feel it dries harder and faster than mixing the dextrin in with the comp. As Lambent mentioned above, I think the dextrin gets fully activated this way.

Edited May 30, 2014 by nater

[LambentPyro]

It's funny you mention about just dumping a premeasured amount in. I found if you do little by little, it distributes among the powder evenly and it's not just easier to work with but I found it to be less messy as you work it in. Dumping it on one side makes that side soup meanwhile the other side is still meal! Especislly with dark comps, it's super easy to determine the amount of moisture just by observing the contrast. Other comps like colored formulas get flakey/crystal looking when they're wet in my experience and seem gritty when they're dried, esp. comps with atmoized metal.

[GalFisk]

I like your alternate name for W20. This was the first ever glitter I made, and it's lovely.

I've made it without milling the ingredients at all. NaHCO3 and KNO3 like fine salt, everything else as dust. Vine charcoal. I've had to add about 20% (w/w) of water to get it into a cuttable state, but maybe I'm just impatient. In any case, the result is still wonderful:

 

The stuff does react, and smells acidic/foul (SO2? Not ammonia-like). I form it into a 10mm patty, and there is no discernable heat from that. The reaction doesn't appear to damage the effect or the stars.

[MWJ]

Very nice galFisk! I like the Win 20 too. I started using Win 20 because of this post. Thanks Spitfire.

Edited December 23, 2014 by MWJ

[Titanium]

I want to make this composition but I don't have 200mesh MgAl, but 150 mesh and 250mesh.

 

What would you consider to work better, I would say 250 Mesh or what would you think?

[FlaMtnBkr]

Finer will probably make smaller and faster flashes. Honestly I would just pick the one you have the most of.

[Livingston]

Titanium those will work!! I would try using half of each mesh size for a starting point of experimentation. After making a small batch with each separate sizes.

[Titanium]

Ok thank you both, I will try today

[stix]

Additional info on Winokur # 20 Glitter, or as i call it... King's Glitter!

 

This has been the most amazing glitter formula i have ever seen, and used for years. Pretty much non-toxic materials and the result gives you glitter stars with flashes so large and loud, the almost look like strobe or ''softened'' crackling comets. My all time favorite! So i nick-named it ''King's Glitter''. The formula:

 

Potassium Nitrate 48

Sulfur 17

MgAl 200 mesh 12 (like portland cement)

Charcoal (pine) 10

Sodium Bicarbonate 5

Iron Oxide red 4

Dextrin 4

 

All ingredients must be very fine, if you use fertilizer grade KNO3 and/or Bicarbonate, ballmill it first to a very fine powder. Sieve the ingredients and ''diaper'' them to a homogeneous mass. It is critical when you make stars out of this, to use a minimum amount of water. Too much water somewhat kills the effect. Personally i always use a starplate when making these babies. Add just enough water/alcohol (75/25) to make it a little bit damp, just enough to hold it together when you squeeze a hand full in your palm.

 

VARIATIONS:

 

The color and size of the spritzels (exploding sparks) can be altered by using different types of charcoal. On average the ''heavier'' coals, (oak, beech etc) give more golden sparks but also a very long delay. It may also cause less spritzels to form. I also tried Willow charcoal and it gave slightly smaller ''whiter'' sparks. Enough room to experiment!

 

PINE COAL

This charcoal is my favorite because the natural growing cycle of the pine tree gives soft wood followed by a layer of hard wood during season changes. The charcoal resembles this. The soft charcoal mostly works ''onboard'' the burning star and helps to drive off the spritzels. The more hard charcoal acts in the process of forming the actual spritzels.

 

Altering delay:

 

The amount of Sodium Bicarbonate can be altered to change the delay. By increasing/decreasing the Bicarbonate by 1% one can finetune the delay. This might come in hand when you want to make smaller stars and bigger comets with this formula.

 

More Bicarbonate = longer delay

Less Bicarbonate = shorter delay

 

For further reading on understanding glitter i strongly suggest:

 

GLITTER chemistry & techniques by Lloyd Scott Oglesby

 

 

 

Thanks for that spitfire.

 

This comp looks like a perfect intro into star making for me. I have all the ingredients so it's doable, but i'll be taking my time. I'll also need to make a star gun for testing purposes and go from there, ie. star mine, a small shell perhaps.

 

 

I would avoid leaving this particular composition sealed up overnight. A normal formula would be fine. This one containing nitrate, magnalium, and sodium bicarbonate could begin to react. Having it sealed with escalate this reaction. MJW actually just experienced this inadvertently. 20-30 min should be fine, overnight probably would be too long.

 

Fair warning on the Ti. Too many coarse particles in glitter mixes can lead to excessive fallout.

 

Thanks Mumbles, does this mean that it would be ok if the mix is stored overnight "unsealed" or should I make the stars asap? I'm assuming the reaction issue is caused by being dampened with water.

 

So when I cut my stars (or pump them) and then dry them - they can be stored without any "reaction" problems because they are dry?

 

Cheers.

[mabuse00]

 

does this mean that it would be ok if the mix is stored overnight "unsealed" or should I make the stars asap? I'm assuming the reaction issue is caused by being dampened with water.

The dry mixture can be stored of course, but once you wet the mix it should be processed immediately.

 

 

So when I cut my stars (or pump them) and then dry them - they can be stored without any "reaction" problems because they are dry?

Yes.

Once they are really dry, all reactions should stop. Be aware that this make take some time, depending on the conditions where you live. Round about a week or so.

[GalFisk]

I judge mine as dry when the foul smell is gone. If your dextrin has a smell (my homemade had) you may start smelling that instead.

Someone mentioned that W20 should not smell foul if the sulfur used was completely acid free. That jives with the smell (SO2 is what it seems like), and that some report no reaction. I imagine mixing the suspect ingredients (S, MgAl, KNO3, NaHCO3) in pairs and threes and wetting the different mixes will suss out the cause.

[spitfire]

Surprises me some of you guys had a reaction that gave a foul smell. I never experienced that with glitter formulae... I shot some 3'' and 4'' shells with this glitter this NYE, it amazed the audience!

[stix]

My MgAl arrived a couple of days ago and I'm just starting to prepare a small 25gm batch.

 

I'm not sure what Mesh it is - it didn't say on the website, although the image looked more granular than what I got. It does however resemble portland cement or wheat flour and is very dusty. I'm assuming this will be ok.

 

A couple of questions.

 

My components have previously been either ball-milled, or are already a fine powder, except for the charcoal which is mostly airfloat but has a few small lumps in it. The charcoal is paulownia so it's very soft and can be easily crushed by hand. Is it worth ball-milling all the ingredients together (except for the MgAl) - or just sieve/screen it all together including the MgAl?

 

OR when it says "Sieve the ingredients and ''diaper' them to a homogeneous mass" does that mean sieve the ingredients separately to remove any lumps then diaper? - Now as I write this I'm thinking this is the case.

 

At this point I've weighed and mixed all the other ingredients (ex MgAl) in a small plastic container - Do I now add the MgAl, and diaper to a homogeneous mix?... I find this part of the instructions a bit unclear and ambiguous, but perhaps that's just to do with my inexperience in this area - I've only ever made bp and r-candy.

 

I did try to read the posted reference to "GLITTER chemistry & techniques by Lloyd Scott Oglesby" but that was a bit much to take in.

 

Sorry about my confused ignorance, but this is my first composition with metals and I'm getting a bit paranoid. I'll wait for further info before proceeding. Perhaps I'm being too cautious?

 

Cheers.

[Maserface]

Why not instead, pick up the ACTUAL literature that this composition is from? ill help you out, its Pyrotechnica ii, and its worth every penny.

 

In my opinion you are being just a tad paranoid. 12 parts mgal isnt going to suddenly make this mixture into a deadly and sensitive explosive. Add the mgal and blend by hand- If it were me, I would have already started adding moisture to the mix to keep the dust down

[Bobosan]

Since you are feeling a bit paranoid, coffee/ball mill the individual components (except mgal) to pass through at least 40 mesh. Consolidate all ingredients except the mgal through a 40 mesh screen at least 3 times or until completely homogenous. Finally, diaper in the mgal until a homogenous mix is obtained.

[stix]

Why not instead, pick up the ACTUAL literature that this composition is from? ill help you out, its Pyrotechnica ii, and its worth every penny.

 

In my opinion you are being just a tad paranoid. 12 parts mgal isnt going to suddenly make this mixture into a deadly and sensitive explosive. Add the mgal and blend by hand- If it were me, I would have already started adding moisture to the mix to keep the dust down

 

 

 

Perhaps overly cautious might have been a better choice of words than paranoid.

Thanks for the info on the book - I'll have a look for it.

 

 

Since you are feeling a bit paranoid, coffee/ball mill the individual components (except mgal) to pass through at least 40 mesh. Consolidate all ingredients except the mgal through a 40 mesh screen at least 3 times or until completely homogenous. Finally, diaper in the mgal until a homogenous mix is obtained.

 

Thanks Bobosan, that's exactly what I'll do.

 

Cheers.

[stix]

Ok, it's all mixed and done.

 

Unfortunately I think I added a bit too much water though. It didn't look like it was going to hold together enough (too crumbly) for cutting stars, so two spritzes later... I now have a ball that resembles dough.

 

Given the op's original info: "It is critical when you make stars out of this, to use a minimum amount of water. Too much water somewhat kills the effect." Does that mean It's not worth going any further and I should just flush it.?

 

Anyway, I'm going to leave it for approx. 1hr for the dextrin to activate properly. My method for cutting will be to roll it out between two sheets of baking paper to about 1/4 inch thick then cut into 1/4 inch cubes with a plastic card.

 

btw. I experienced the same foul stench that others have mentioned. This was more evident just after a 'spritz' and only lasted for about 30 secs.

 

Cheers.

[mabuse00]

A little foul smell is OK.

 

 

It's not worth going any further and I should just flush it.?

No!

 

If you accidently use to much water, just rice your mix through a coarse sieve or kitchen coolander as you would BP to rice it, and spread it out somewhere. That way it cannot heat up easily and looses moisture quite fast.

 

Just don't try to heat it.

 

 

Next time use a scale to measure the amount of water and take notes. So that after gaining some experience you don't have to experiment every time but just execute a well tried method.

[GalFisk]

When cutting W20, I've had to add about 20 weight% water/alcohol (75/25) in order to get it into a workable state. Maybe I'm just impatient though. Still, it works just fine after this. I also don't mill the ingredients; the KNO3 and NaHCO3 are as fine salt, everything else is fine dust.

 

The moistened mass behaves rather like corn or potato starch in water, becoming hard and crumbly when pressed/formed, but soggy when left alone. I think it's the charcoal that does this.

[stix]

A little foul smell is OK.

 

No!

 

If you accidently use to much water, just rice your mix through a coarse sieve or kitchen coolander as you would BP to rice it, and spread it out somewhere. That way it cannot heat up easily and looses moisture quite fast.

 

Just don't try to heat it.

 

 

Next time use a scale to measure the amount of water and take notes. So that after gaining some experience you don't have to experiment every time but just execute a well tried method.

 

Thanks mab, I've pretty much done that and cut them - about 100 x 1/4 inch stars have been born.

 

No, I won't be heating them - I do understand the difference between force drying and natural evaporation. They are now sitting on a mesh screen with a fan blowing over them.

 

Over the last hour or so I have smelled a big sulfur stink coming off them, which I assume is part of the drying process.

 

When cutting W20, I've had to add about 20 weight% water/alcohol (75/25) in order to get it into a workable state. Maybe I'm just impatient though. Still, it works just fine after this. I also don't mill the ingredients; the KNO3 and NaHCO3 are as fine salt, everything else is fine dust.

 

The moistened mass behaves rather like corn or potato starch in water, becoming hard and crumbly when pressed/formed, but soggy when left alone. I think it's the charcoal that does this.

 

Thanks Galfisk, good to know that others have been there. Yep, it seems weird, and I have experienced the potato starch crumbly but wet phenomenon.

 

Thanks muchly.

[spitfire]

you're on the right track stix, you will figure it out! We all started this way. With a little help from our friends here you learn fast. After a few batches of star making you''ll get a ''feeling'' for this. About (over)wetting the composition: what mabuse said is the way to go. For making cut stars a little over-wet isn't such a big deal. When you press stars in a plate, it would. Next time use less water and let the wetted mixture sit for awhile to let it fully do it's job. Like: wet a little, mix with your hand gently, leave alone for a few mins, check, and mix in some more when not wet enough. Use small portions, i use a plant sprayer bottle for this. Any questions welcome!

 

EDIT: oh the book about glitter is indeed a bit a plunge in the deep, yes. It is not of much use when you want to learn to make your first stars, bu very interesting to understand what chemistry happens inside the burning glitter star and what the role of every chemical is. Save it for later!

Edited January 8, 2015 by spitfire