whitewolf_573 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I am tired of europe, and european goverment, and stupid, mindless people who represent us and some of who live around, that only are a pain in the ass, because we want we know that we should have the right to make fireworks, and live as we like - in a responsible manner, but without stupid forbids ... For me pyro is a right,make firewrks , being a pyro is what i am , is my right to enjoy my life as i want, that is making fireworks. So it should be always legal being a amateur pyro, and be able to make and launch fireworks, store and get chems and made devices. With a adecuate storage, and safety minded , and all the requirements and responsabilities need, but it should be my right to do it. But europeans we know that we are not helped, nor goverments work for let us being what we are,and make fireworks in a safe and responsible way. They just prefer to forbid it.Like if pro pyros would be the only ones that can launch a 6" shell in a safe way ...I think europe sucks in many aspects (pyro one) ... (perhaps uk being a exception) I think the states would be a better place to live ... compared to europe, at leas for pyro. At least there are more freedom,a country were pyrotechnics, and the freedom to make fireworks is a fact, and be a amateur pyrotechnician is legal and more respected. Where freedom is a right, where living our lives like we would want is almost possible and a right - if is done with respect to others - a great country where righs and freedom i think is part of what does USA big. Sure there has been some rights cut, and all is not so beautiful like i think is, but if i have to choose between being a european, and live in europe , like i do (i have not chossen it) or live in the states, i would live in the states for sure.I love also the states, not only for pyro . Anyway we have to fight for our rights, and for what we are, and do, and move us - mostly in europe. Edited January 23, 2015 by whitewolf_573 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalFisk Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm glad to report that here in Sweden, we have started the process of getting a realistic, legal, licensed way to practice hobbyist pyro. We have contact with a person in the relevant department who is actually both knowledgeable and supportive of our cause.For the first time ever, the future of pyro as a hobby seems to be brighter than the present in this country. There's a long road ahead, but at least there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm glad to report that here in Sweden, we have started the process of getting a realistic, legal, licensed way to practice hobbyist pyro. We have contact with a person in the relevant department who is actually both knowledgeable and supportive of our cause.For the first time ever, the future of pyro as a hobby seems to be brighter than the present in this country. There's a long road ahead, but at least there is one.Good luck with that. I tried it 5 years ago, and it turned out to a 4 year long staling game, after which they simply started over, and i gave up. I'll shoot you a message "over there" asking you to keep me in the loop, since it would be nice to see if your efforts actually amount to anything.Cheering for you guys here.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deer Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) I can understand the good intentions behind such bans, but it always puzzles how they always fail to recognize and foresee legitimate uses and crippling effect they cause.It seems as the ones implementing them are familiar only with the harmful effects of whatever is being banned and completely forget that things have gained widespread use almost entirely because of their usefulness. You might think that pyros are stocking up, but you'd be surprised how worried are owners of small farms and gardens, which cant have the status to buy in wholesale and now will be forced to use some weak and ineffective "bio-products".So many times at work things have been delayed because how difficult it is to e.g. get a basic strong chemical, to clean come metal or do other mundane thing. Why can't individuals get a basic license to buy such stuff (e.g. no criminal records or mental illnesses during last 5 years). Or just pay some "nature protection" fee and use lead if you need. Now you're either out of business, must go illegal or have to pay premium to some large company that will do stuff for you. This basically kills any small business / crafting. And those who want to do illegal stuff, will still be able to do it illegal way. TL;DR; Whenever something is banned, why are legitimate uses always totally forgotten? Edited May 3, 2015 by deer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 The UK has a "licence for amateur possession" for the regulated explosives precursors but it hasn't made things easier, in fact one supplier has closed. However I can understand the precursors ban, most countries have had terrorist outrages based on illegally made explosives. Many more people are killed each year in motor incidents, stabbings and drownings but those are not newsworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhalo Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Oh dear... and I thought the downunder nanny state was hard to live with.But I just have to walk into a rural supply store and ask for a sack of potassium nitrate to top up the hydroponics tank.Ammonium Nitrate is another story entirely. A few points.Hindsight... Pol Pot was the dictator of Cambodia (and renamed it Kampuchea).. Myanmar is what used to be Burma. MrB... as far as I know organic chemicals, while always including carbon, usually refer to hydrocarbons. So... KNO3 is definitely not organic... whereas carbonates are (strictly speaking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 MrB... as far as I know organic chemicals, while always including carbon, usually refer to hydrocarbons. So... KNO3 is definitely not organic... whereas carbonates are (strictly speaking)Thanks. I learn every day.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deer Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 AFAIK KNO3 is still freely available - just the purchase of it is monitored - you have to show I.D. and sign a form stating it'll be used only for farming purposes But e.g. possession KClO3/KClO4 will be a criminal offence starting from some time next year. This means it's not only impossible to buy, but even making your own is basically illegal.Concentrated acids cant be bought freely (IDK since when and why though). Certain environmentally hazardous materials too (e.g. Lead). I think it hasn't been implemented fully yet, thus only certain measures are in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubehage Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think it hasn't been implemented fully yet, thus only certain measures are in place.That law, along with so many other laws, is made with a generous amount of fear, mixed with public opinion and covered in stupidity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 That law, along with so many other laws, is made with a generous amount of fear, mixed with public opinion and covered in stupidity.Not so much fear, as fear-mongering. But the bottom line remains the same. This is governments telling it's citizens that they know better then they do, and enforcing a nanny state, while the only one's getting crippled by the rules are the people who actually play by the rules, the people who really wants to hurt you, or society, have no problem with circumventing the obstacles, and obtain the "goodies". Fookin stupid, if you ask me. But thats the current state of politics pretty much the world over.B! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 @ Mr. B: Inasmuch as any government trying to "control" any implement(s) of destruction. Whether it be pyro, firearms, whatever..... It seems only the law abiders are restricted / penalized. "Nanny state", an interesting phrase I usually only hear from the extreme right in this country. The state of politics? It's pretty much not who you support, but who would do the least damage..... the lesser of two evils. /m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stix Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Not so much fear, as fear-mongering. But the bottom line remains the same. This is governments telling it's citizens that they know better then they do, and enforcing a nanny state, while the only one's getting crippled by the rules are the people who actually play by the rules, the people who really wants to hurt you, or society, have no problem with circumventing the obstacles, and obtain the "goodies". Fookin stupid, if you ask me. But thats the current state of politics pretty much the world over.B! +1. Criminals never abide by rules and the law, that's what they do. I had an interesting conversation with a friend a while back regarding his concern for my pyrotechnic interests, and how that could be perceived or misconstrued by the authorities in the current climate. I pointed out to him that if I had malicious intent, then I (or anybody) wouldn't need some pyrotechnic device or gun, They could simply get in a car and drive to the nearest mall and mow down some people. Unfortunately that actually happened in France a week or so later. A couple of weeks after that, not too far from where I live, a young kid stabbed a couple of cops with a knife. Fortunately it was not fatal. Carrying a knife or concealed weapon in Oz is illegal. So what! that doesn't stop anyone with real malicious intent. Most of us drive cars, and use knives in our kitchen - obviously they can't be banned. My point is that someone wishing to do bad shit like what's been happening will do so regardless of laws. As our freedoms diminish, "they" succeed - As "they" succeed, our freedoms diminish - Ad infinitum. Laws will work not for those who's ideology is completely opposite to ours - it will need a different approach. If you never have, read George Orwell's 1984 - It's happening NOW!! it has been slowly creeping up in the last 20yrs or so. Do so quickly before all books are burned and internet information is censored. Otherwise the only way you'll be able to teach the next generations anything is via stone tablets (sound familiar?) or word of mouth (sort of like myths and legend) or cave paintings. Have a happy day - Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deer Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I think the bans are less fear-mongering and more imitation of action. You see fear-mongering where someone wants to pass an unpopular law for his own good (e.g. make some product / service mandatory). Bans, I think is, imitation of "solution" to calm the public, for problem where not much can actually be done that simply.I mean, what can you do about ingredients or methods? "Lets BAN that toxic Chemistry!" Sounds serious, general public is happy and feels protected, large companies (aka Lobbyists) are not affected, thus don't mind and small hobbyists don't make up enough of electorate to matter. PR Win!. So I think it's just on our shoulders to do the hard work to help refine such laws and regulations so they actually work as intended, because those who do this only for the good ratings wont care. Edit: P.S. So I think everyone should start by exercising all of the available legal framework in their country (Amateur rocketry license, pyro-technitian certificate) and then go to the appropriate institutions and say "Hey, I've gotten every possible permit, but still cant buy parts for even a small fart. How come? We should change something about it." Edited May 6, 2015 by deer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 By the way, has anyone seen this: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/crisis-and-terrorism/explosives/explosives-precursors/docs/sos_leaflet_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketier Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) It's a pain in the arse dudes. But most serious guys have there stuff packed or they have perc cells working. Then there is always the btob transaction possible. I think this whole law does not effect to those who really want to do harm. Or chems will be brought in or they will be stoolen. In Northen Europe it's not allowed even for proffesional pyrotechnicians to make there own devices. In Spain, Malta en Italia they can. I wish there was an escape to earn a license like the ATF is. A couple of decades ago in the Netherlands they had a pyroclub. Unfortunatly one of the topguys setoff a device that blew out some windows of a military base. After that is was forbidden to produce your own fireworks there. That Sucks!............ The problem here is, when somebody snitches you, the police will come knowing notting about chemicals so the bomsquade pays a visit. And quess what they don't know either. So they take everyting and blow you whole shit to peaces. The good thing is that afterwards they don't have evidence to proof what they found..............It will be very hard to impossible to get some sort of license to get your chemicals so creativity has to be used. And that will be! Edited May 8, 2015 by Rocketier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 A lot of these are not really about effectiveness but about keeping people calm and letting them know that someone's in charge. For example the really overblown security at airports. Everyone knows it's not going to stop people with malicious intent from smuggling weapons onto planes and hijacking it, but it lets everyone know that someone's in charge and that there's security. It makes everyone feel safer and therefore the operation can run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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